New species of coenobita found in ELHC

sugarselections · Post by **sugarselections** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:45 pm

NaRnAR wrote:I also ran my own business and had angry people on occasion. You cant ignore them, no matter how much you want to, because if you want to be an upstanding business you take all the garbage that comes your way and find a way to deal with it, even if it means wearing your "happy email tone" while you grind your teeth and silently cuss the person out. News travels fast....and new of bad business travels even faster. If you want to be a good business you learn to deal no matter how stressed out you get.

I think this in completely untrue. I own my own business and that income is my sole support. I do very well. I also refuse to deal with customers who are disrespectful. My business has only grown.

MacandHunter · Post by **MacandHunter** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:07 pm

I think things got really off topic here. Let me just say a couple points and I'm done til we find out more about this species.

1 - All of us here have the right to know and understand more about this species before buying it. That's all I want.

2 - I am angry at the situation because a price tag was put on the crab before detailed information was put out. This rubs me the wrong way. However not everyone reacts this way. I don't think this is how crabbing should work, and it looks like a lot of old timers feel the same way. Maybe I miss the old days of driving some place and hope to find a strawberry or an E.

kgbenson · Post by **kgbenson** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:16 pm

NaRnAR wrote:Its nice to know this whole thing has gone way off topic..and is now lets psychoanalyze Mac and his "email".

No one is analyzing his email, but his tone in his posts.

In your comment about accepting something as a fact, KG, well it seems like this new species has already been accepted as a fact as its being sold as so

.
By Bob perhaps, and Felix and maybe others. And? I would argue it would be best to have some sort of peer reviewed paper verifying the discovery. And it isn't. OK, don't buy them. If anyone says I have some, point out that the species is not recognized by any scientific body.

...and with no evidence that it is indeed a new species. Again, Im thinking you cant present something as fact with out backing it up...especially a new species.

Not in the scientific community no. But near as I can tell, that is not what he has done.

On any given day things are tossed around on this board as facts with little to no corroborating evidence - and they affect how people care for crabs. I do not see you calling them out.

I would agree though that the ideal way to go would have been to get peer reviewed verification and then sell them as the new species. But I am thinking from a particular point of view, I think Bob was simply excited to share the "discovery" with crab enthusiasts. Honestly.

I also ran my own business and had angry people on occasion. You cant ignore them, no matter how much you want to, because if you want to be an upstanding business you take all the garbage that comes your way and find a way to deal with it, even if it means wearing your "happy email tone" while you grind your teeth and silently cuss the person out.

I disagree. I think it is reasonable to tolerate some bad behavior (everyone has a lousy day), and there may be times when you need to tolerate more because you need the business. But that is a personal decision. Some folks might say, tough luck, I lose the sale but I don't have to put up with XYZ. We all have a different threshold. I don't think it is a matter or right or wrong, or something you must do as a business owner.

you must let your customers know you wont be able to correspond with them, or it really does look like youre ignoring them. Not good....I dont care how many live crabs people have received.

I do not disagree with you, at the same time if someone hasn't done that I just don't get my knickers in a bunch and move on. Interesting though that he has responded to some folks rather readily, and a few people have not heard from him - is it not possible that he simply did not receive some people's email? All this discussion about email tone and what not may well be moot if the initial message has never graced his inbox. Perhaps a call by the aggrieved and ignored parties . . . . .I dunno, I think that suggestion has come up a few times. At some point if you won't lift a finger to find out isf there is a problem or not, you no longer get to whine.

And on the topic of hiding information...Im sorry that "behavior" is rather insecure. If your going to have a product and your going to sell said product, your customers have every right to know what it is and whats going into it...or the background of said product.

I don't disagree with you when it comes to commodities. But, live critters, that can be different. Especially if the competition would take the information and go collecting. Done wrong it could be dangerous for some of the smaller populations, at best it feeds the competition. If Bob wants to keep his exact sources as his own business - I can't fault him. The hermit crab world at the level of importers and wholesalers is a bit messy as far as I can tell.

As for care-sheets and such, I really don't know why they are not up on the site and cannot see why they would be a secret. In today's world they won't be a secret long. I think it is more a matter of simply not getting it done. Most of the people buying from him are experienced and really have little need for the care-sheets. And you have to talk to him before he ships so there is an opportunity for care instructions. Ideal? Not yet, but hardly worth the negativity.

Keith

limeslide · Post by **limeslide** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:28 pm

MacandHunter, why not PM Mokulele_Hawai'i from here? He is Felix, right?
Oh, and pretty please, STOP arguing. This is a off topic. Way blown out of proportion. All TheCrabbyTabby did was post that they are selling a new crab.

kgbenson · Post by **kgbenson** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:28 pm

MacandHunter wrote:I think things got really off topic here.

The light from the original topic would take 100,000 years to reach us at this point.

1 - All of us here have the right to know and understand more about this species before buying it. That's all I want.

All of us have a right not to buy the thing until we know enough to care for it. And so far I see nothing that precludes anyone from calling, inquiring and not buying before they ahve the info they need. Sounds like in some ways we agree.

2 - I am angry at the situation because a price tag was put on the crab before detailed information was put out. This rubs me the wrong way.

I would argue that given the average lifespan of a crab in the hands of most advanced crabbers on say, forums like this, are still far shorter than what they could or should be, that a price4 tag is on every hermit crab before the best detailed information was put out. FWIW - it rubs me the wrong way to, but perhaps I am looking with a wider angle lens on this particfular point.

However not everyone reacts this way. I don't think this is how crabbing should work, and it looks like a lot of old timers feel the same way. Maybe I miss the old days of driving some place and hope to find a strawberry or an E.

Ahhhhh nostalgia. I sort of see your point. But the funny thing about the "old timers" in almost any group or activity, at some point they react to anything new simply because it removes their ability to claim to be an authority. Not saying that is happening here, I just think the argument that the "old timers" don't cotton to something is a logical fallacy.

SO, called Bob yet?

Keith

Post by **wodesorel** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:37 pm

kgbenson wrote:
SO, called Bob yet?

I would like to request someone to call as well. I would, but I have problems communicating in anything other than written form these days. I know it sounds like an excuse, but seriously, the stuttering is hard to overcome....

NaRnAR · Post by **NaRnAR** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:52 pm

I dunno, KG sounds pretty bent on someone calling, perhaps he should.

sugarselections · Post by **sugarselections** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:16 pm

MacandHunter wrote:I don't think this is how crabbing should work, and it looks like a lot of old timers feel the same way.

I wasn't aware we had to be a part of a certain clique here at the HCA to have a valid opinion.

I second kgbenson. If this issue is so important to you, why not just call Bob and ask him directly. You could end all your speculation with a short phone call.

sugarselections · Post by **sugarselections** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:17 pm

NaRnAR wrote:I dunno, KG sounds pretty bent on someone calling, perhaps he should.

But he's not the one with the anger toward ELHC. Why should he be the one to call about an issue that doesn't trouble him?

sugarselections · Post by **sugarselections** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:25 pm

wodesorel wrote:I would like to request someone to call as well. I would, but I have problems communicating in anything other than written form these days. I know it sounds like an excuse, but seriously, the stuttering is hard to overcome....

If you really want to talk to Bob, please don't worry about stuttering or any other speech issues. I can be really, really bad on the phone and will often do absolutely anything to avoid calling someone. Once I bit the bullet and called Bob, everything was great. He's a big talker and storyteller so you don't have to worry about things getting awkward. He's also just a genuinely nice person.

The first time I talked to Bob our conversation lasted almost 2 hours. Other than that call, I doubt all the calls I've made within the last year would even add up to 2 hours.

Gab33 · Post by **Gab33** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:55 pm

limeslide wrote:MacandHunter, why not PM Mokulele_Hawai'i from here? He is Felix, right?
Oh, and pretty please, STOP arguing. This is a off topic. Way blown out of proportion. All TheCrabbyTabby did was post that they are selling a new crab. Gosh.

That^^^.....

Although some of your points are...interesting...you're only making yourself sound like the middle schoolers me and lime are. Honestly I've been following this and it seems to be going nowhere. Whether or not the owner replies is his business and pointing out what you would do doesn't really change anything. Neither does complaining or taking this out of proportion.

kgbenson · Post by **kgbenson** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:32 pm

NaRnAR wrote:I dunno, KG sounds pretty bent on someone calling, perhaps he should.

I have!

Keith

limeslide · Post by **limeslide** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:58 pm

limeslide wrote:MacandHunter, why not PM Mokulele_Hawai'i from here? He is Felix, right?

Why not PM Mokulele, instead of calling some random guy? Pretty sure Mokulele_Hawai'i will be more than pleased to answer your question. I'll PM him myself, too.
Keith, why don't you call Bob and get some more information? If your so insistent to call him.

kgbenson · Post by **kgbenson** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:28 pm

limeslide wrote:MacandHunter, why not PM Mokulele_Hawai'i from here? He is Felix, right?

Yep - Happy Crabbie himself.

Keith, why don't you call Bob and get some more information? If your so insistent to call him.

I spoke with him earlier this evening - but then I am not the one who really needs to talk to him to get the answers I seem to need. Get the story from the horses mouth.

I did ask him about the care sheets. He will not be putting them up on the website. I asked why and he reiterated that, for the same reason that Tammy doesn't put everything up on her site, it gets ripped off. If you are a customer you will get one as it pertains to your animal(s). So I asked what about folks who are buying but really don't know what to expect and then they get a care sheet that catches them by surprise. Well, just like with Tammy - you will not be getting any crabs until you speak with them about shipping, and he will go over what your set up is and what you need to have and what you can expect. He is quite thorough when you talk with him. I will admit that while I generally feel that information should flow freely, I can see his point. His customers will get care-sheets and lots of "techsupport" if they need it.

FWIW I can't imagine some newb being shipped a super-jumbo armored indo and getting the surprise of his/her life when they open the box. Nope - they will have had at least one lengthy conversation and Bob will need to feel sure that the recipient knows what they are in for, in the case of the more delicate species, perhaps more than one.

If that system of vetting buyers doesn't sit with folks, well, I don't know what to say. I ahve been expereinced it, and so have other posters on this thread. We felt it was appropriate. If you really want to know, try it. I can personally attest that he is thorough, especially if you are looking for the more delicate animals.

Keith

Dog Lips · Post by **Dog Lips** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:20 pm

I'm going to try calling ELHC tomorrow, ask about Canada, and the species and maybe an update on the Spinosis. But come on guys. This thread was supposed to be about talking about this "new" species that was found. I thought we'd be talking about the crab, not the seller. But really guys, this thread has turned into a war zone. Stop with the grumbling and bitterness, please.