What do I need to know about Bettas??

[Happy Crabber]

No worries here. This is all very helpful.

So what kind of filter would you recommend for a 5-10g tank? Does the tank just start cycling on its own with nothing in it yet? I don't know anyone who keeps fish that could help me seed it.

[wodesorel]

I think all the companies are going cheaper with their products lately. :/ None of the ones made for 10 gallons have adjustable flow like they used to be and the plastic is thinner. (I'm pretty sure they don't, anyway.)

For a betta, buy a 10 gallon sized filter. For normal tropical and goldfish, you want a filter that can turn over at least 6 to 10 times the gallons of your aquarium in an hour - called GPH, which will be written somewhere on the box. The sizes they say the filter is for is does NOT match up to this. I currently have a 70 gallon filter on my 20 gallon tank for this reason.

You can adjust the flow by buying a block of foam: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.j ... Id=2754144

I actually recommend using this as your filter media regardless of the brand of filter you buy. You never want to throw the media away, so you need something that isn't going to fall apart and can be easily rinsed in used tank water. I have blocks of this stuff from 9 years ago still in use! Anyway, take your intake tube for the filter, cut an x shape into the block of foam deep enough so that all the intake slits would be covered, and then slide the foam over the intake tube (might take some tugging). You can adjust the flow one-time by trimming away at the foam so that the water can get through quicker. You will need to clean this cover once or twice a week as it will trap all the debris that the filter normally would and clog up and restrict flow. I used this trick with my old filter when my loaches were small as they could get through the slats and could have been hurt, but it also works for bettas.

[Bridgitmac80]

We had planned on Petsmart but they were closed. Amazing the difference in chain locations. We actually were at the PSP that I have only been in once before, there are 3 in Knoxville, 2 Petco's, and 3 or 4 Pet Smarts. Pet Supplies Plus (Kingston Pike) is where you get crabs, Petsmart Murrell Road or Alcoa is the fish experts. Neither of them even have crab tanks anymore, at least not out for sale.

We've never had goldfish grow big before, and our oldest we had for 4 years before our toddler threw MM's in the tank as we were leaving and we didn't know it and came home to a blown up fishie He was alone in a 10g so when you said how big they can get, talk about shock! Basically they grow like Koi correct? Or technically are Koi?

I am going to search the fish tonight to be 100% of which they are. Fingers crossed we do right by these guys, glad we didn't get the betta yet at least!

[wodesorel]

Sorry to hear about your last goldfish. That would have been horrible!

That's a black moor goldfish with the googlie eyes, and the calico one is a gorgeous Ryukin. To give you an idea of how big they get, I was in the "bad" pet store for crickets last year and they had one in a 20 gallon tank where I don't think it was able to turn around any more. It was literally half the tank in size. They said it was a return and it had been in that tank for the entire 4 years it had been out. I lost my temper and asked them what they were thinking since they HAD a 150 gallon goldfish tank they could put it in two feet away, and they said it was to "show people how big they get" and that the fish wasn't for sale. We walked out.

The two red and whites on the left are definitely comets. When you see the fancy carp in those disgustingly algaed ponds those would be comets. While they were developed for color, their body shape was never really messed with, so they're more wild-type then the fancies. They really are pond fish rather than tank fish, but they can be kept as tank fish if you can get them a large enough aquarium. They grow much slower then their fancy counterparts, but not that much. With healthy water conditions, the right sized tank, and a good quality food they really shoot up. Mine we rescued I think in October and it was about two inches long - he's now about five and growing by the day. Their tail fins will also get as long as their bodies when they have the right sized tank. The LOVE bubblers. And algae does seem to follow them. :/ A glass scraper is going to be your best friend in a few months!

Koi are another critter entirely. Goldfish were developed in China, while Koi are Japanese - closely related but different origins. Those are extremely high-strung and need absolutely pristine ponds in order to live. You can tell a koi by all the barbells they have on their mouths. I think they're gorgeous, but they also get nearly three times larger than comets!

The one in the middle is definitely a Dalmatian Molly. Like guppies they give live birth. They're a hybrid of the Sailfin Molly which is actually native to the US. They are an estuary and coastal species, which means that they do need brackish water in order to really thrive, and can even handle seriously salty tanks. I actually wanted these for my 29 gallon fiddler tank, but the consensus by the gurus I spoke with when planning is that they need at least a 30 long when grown since they do get so large and are so active with a 55 being ideal, which is why I ended up with guppies. (Not regretting it, though!)

[Bridgitmac80]

I looked up all of them just a bit ago and got the names of each, woulda saved me time to just come back here first lol.

Oh my goodness! That is one of the most horrible pet store stories I've heard! My brother and I had an Oscar when we were kids (no clue they grew to the size of their tank) and after 2 or 3 years my brother was leaving for the army, Oscar (so original huh) was in a 29g tank I think, we gave him and the tank to a new home, 1 year later he was in a 120g tank! Lost track of him after that, but I have a feeling I will be either making a pond for them or donating them to a current already established gold fish pond. I told my husband all this and he was in shock they can get that size as well. These are the last gold fish we will have lol

Glad to know the love bubblers I am picking up a new air pump and hopefully bubble curtain tomorrow. Ordering a larger filtration system for them tonight as well since the one we have came with the tank and is 20 to 40 gallon. Algae wise once it does start maintaining in the tank, we are adding a algae eater and a snail as well. Will probably get a snail for the betta tank as well later on. She is getting the tank and all tomorrow to get it ready.

Apparently my husband had black mollies as a teen, and some other guppie type and they all gave birth, he said it was really cool to watch the babies until mommy and daddy ate them all (he didn't know they would do that). So now he wants us to be prepared because apparently we have a male and a female I then showed him the size they get 5" and the tank recommendations, now he hopes everyone grows slowly and wasn't happy when I mentioned watching for the dollar per gallon sales...............

[Emily]

Haha, yeah there is a LOT of misinformation about fish out there and you'd be surprised at how little people ask questions or care, we take for granted how many people actually do research about pets.

As far as betta's go, just remember to divert the flow of the water from the filter so there is no current, and I would highly suggest against bubblers, as they create water flow. If you really want one, get 3-5 gallon bubblers, as they exert less pressure. Betta's live in stagnant ponds and the current stresses them.

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but I would not suggest an algae eater in the betta fish tank, at least not until your tank is stable and you know how much algae grows in your tank. Betta's do not produce very much waste, and algal growth is usually minimal. Also, do research on algae eaters. There are many kinds, and very rarely are the true small-tank-plecos sold, as the cheaper version called the "spotted pleco" are more commonly sold in stores. The spotted pleco reaches 12-16 inches long and is usually a resident in ponds. It is also carnivorous. Sailfins are also sold cheaply, get about 8-14 inches and are carnivorous.

The bearded/bushy nose/bristle-nose (many different names, same fish) pleco grows about 4-5 inches, and is a REAL vegetarian. They require ten gallons minimum, 80 degree water and lots of places to hide. They are not a fish you will see in your tank often, they hide, and are nocturnal. The darker versions (not the albino) generally live longer as the albinos are increasingly inbred as of approximately 2004, when a weak strain was introduced into the bloodlines. A bristle nose will cost around $6-10 depending on its size.

PLECOS DO NOT EAT POOP. This is a common misconception. They eat sunken food bits and algae. If there isn't enough algae provided from natural growth, they will need algae pellets, and good quality ones as poor quality "algae pellets" contain more seaweed and bacteria than is healthy.
HAVING A PLECO DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU DO NO HAVE TO CLEAN YOUR TANK. Another misconception. Plecos and bettas both poop. Plecos do not eat poop or burrow to suck out the algae and nastiness underneath the substrate, you will still have to clean your tank regularly.

A pleco is another fish in the tank, which might mean more work.
Having a live plant can reduce the chance of algae growing, as it out-competes the algae for the nutrients it needs. This isn't 100% proven though, I'm just telling you so that you can make an informed choice.

[wodesorel]

Adding more fish to an already overstocking tank is going to make more work for you - you'll have to change the water much more often.

Probably late to ask this, but did you get testing kits so you can monitor the ammonia levels since the tank is new? With that many fish I imagine you'll have to change the water three or four times a day in the beginning to keep them safe from ammonia and then nitrite poisoning. It doesn't take much of either to kill.

The only bad thing about plecos is that there are hundreds of species of plecos that all look nearly the same when young. I suggest lots of research and bringing photos along to verify that it really is a bristlenose before purchase, since most get to a foot or more when fully grown. They are also poop machines! They're great fish, don't get me wrong (I LOVE my clown plecos!), but it's important to have the free space for it because you want it rather then getting one to try and fix a problem.

I would suggest against an algae eater, as all that will do is add to the bioload and make it more likely for the water to turn toxic too quickly. If you can't talk him out of it, do NOT get a Siamese Algae Eater - the name is false and they do not actually eat algae. Otocinclus would probably work in either tank as they stay small and they don't add much to the bioload and are true algae eaters, but they're all wild caught and the survival right is maybe 25% in the best conditions. They're known for just dropping dead within the first week of coming home, and no one really knows why but it's theorized that it's due to internal injuries from collection.

[Bridgitmac80]

Not putting a bubbler in the betta tank, just the other tank. How do I divert the current in the betta tank?

The algea eater he was thinking of is the spotted pleco one, like we had years ago, but I like the idea of a snail in the gold fish tank and maybe one in the betta tank but not until algae growth gets started.

My husband picked up the Quick Dip PH Test Strips for Freshwater aquariums. We used to have the larger kit when we had goldfish before but it must have been tossed out after the fish died or we got ride of it with the tank. So far it's sticking at the "Neutral" or just between it and "Alkaline" so 7.2 and 7.8.....more to the 7.2 side of the color chart. The water is treated with API Tap Water Conditioner (we have well water)

What about ghost shrimp would they be beneficial what so ever to the tank or are they more a breed to feed type thing? Do the snails eat much if they are in the tanks?

[Bridgitmac80]

OK so I just looked up the Otocinclus............they had some of the black and silver stripe type ones at Pet Supplies Plus but had them listed as a Catfish......I wanted one soooo bad, loved the color, (but it's hubby's tank) so I refrained. Would that be the same as you mentioned Wode?

[wodesorel]

pH isn't normally a worry until you have a very sudden die off of fish in an established tank. It's not something to mess with, so as long as the water coming out of your tap is between 6.0 and 8.5 and it's not changing after 24 to 48 hours, you don't have to worry about it. It's huge swings in short periods of time that's harmful and can kill. There's also a relation between pH and temperature that has an effect on the toxicity of ammonia and nitrate, but that's kind of a moot point since any amount of the two is bad for the fish.

The ammonia and the nitrite levels are critical in the beginning as anything above 0ppm is toxic. It's going to get above that within hours of adding fish since there isn't enough of a bacterial colony yet to eat it all and convert it to something harmless, which is why the water changes are so important. The ammonia and nitrite tests will tell you how often you have to be doing those changes in order to save the fish, since normally by the time they're exhibiting symptoms (burns on their fins or bodies, gasping for air, going blind or swimming in a panic) it's already too late.

Otos are really tiny and distinctive looking, and I don't think I've ever actually seen them mislabeled before. They are a species of catfish. (The only other things I could think of that you saw that was a catfish would be raphael cats or some sort of cory cat, but the size difference would be enormous. Otos are tiny little things!)

Ghost shrimp are really cool, but they will become dinner to anything that can fit them in their mouths. I've lost two bettas over the years to them trying to take on shrimp the same size they were. :/ (Bettas are not bright and will eat themselves to death.) In the right community tank with fish who ignore them they are awesome little additions and a lot of fun to watch. They normally don't last too long (bad molts and predation) but my longest lived was around 19 months, and I even had them give birth once! I mean, you'll see females with eggs a lot, but I hadn't bought shrimp for a few months and all of a sudden there was this little micro one that came out of nowhere so he had to have been born in the tank. It was so exciting! (It normally takes a special set-up to get that.)

[Bridgitmac80]

Oh yeah it was a tiny guy. My daughter informed me that the label said O. Catfish, I guess it wasn't mis-labeled after all.

If I am still able to get out of my driveway tomorrow I will be sure to get the other kit to test the water. No one is showing any of those signs which we did have to change the water last night because the gravel caused it to cloud up really bad and they were staying at the top of the tank, thankfully we had a place to put them in fresh clean water while we changed out the tank water. Other than that, it's all been smooth sailing. They act like all they want to do is eat and are constantly scouring the bottom of the tank for lost flakes. Do the Mollies need bloodworms just like the betta will?

[Emily]

Shrimp do best in low pH's, closer to 5-6 whereas the fish you're interested in do better in neutral or slightly higher pH at 7-7.5
And no, shrimp need warm water, and cannot be put with goldfish.

To divert the water flow of the tank, simply create a ledge for the water to fall from. You can cut open a pop bottle and use the middle circle, cut the middle circle in half until you have a small sheath of plastic and wrap it under the current and around the machine itself, it will cause the water to divert into 2 low flows without looking ugly.

Or any DIY method that allows you to divert the water into a corner. You can fasted a floating device in the way of the flow as well.

Also I'm not sure if you're aware but goldfish are highly incompatible with other species of fish. Mostly because A) Most species of freshwater fish, shrimps and snails you see are tropical and require warm water and B) Goldfish are notorious for picking out fish that do not match with them. They are even known to pick on gimped or miscoloured fish of their own species until they die. They prefer to stay in groups that are similar colours, shapes and sizes. It's an instinct not to attract attention to the group.

Goldfish are mega ammonia makers. They are a big commitment and a big responsibility for cleaning. Unfortunately no one is ever told of this when they purchase that cute tiny little goldfish.

[Bridgitmac80]

Thanks for the water flow. The betta tank hopefully will be done and going tonight.

We have had goldfish before. We had 2 at the same time, one lived 2 years, the other between 4 and 5 years when there was an accident involving our son who was a toddler at the time.

I loved the catfish thing that Wode mentioned, so prob going to get it for the gold fish tank. I don't know if my daughter is even willing to put a snail in with the Betta, she said they creep her out. But I have this feeling she won't clean the tank like it's needed (she's 16).

[Emily]

Just a warning, Oto cats are tropical fish, they need warm water with a bit of salt, goldfish are not good with salt except when treating disease. I'm not pushing, just making sure you're informed. Goldfish might not get along with them, they really are a 1-species only animal. But there are always exceptions, and I hope for you that it works.

Also, Oto cats are schooling fish, they are related distantly to Corys and prefer to be in groups. Otos are vegetarians and need romain lettuce and algae pellets. They will increase your ammonia level too, so make sure you get proper conditioner that counteracts ammonia loads.
I've seen a lot of people choose fish just because they like them and refuse to look up the proper care of the fish. I personally don't think this is a good decision. Lets say its the equivalent of putting a hermit crab in a tank without a heater or humidity.

[Bridgitmac80]

Went with my gut and research, got the Mystery snail since they eat both algae and left over food from the bottom of the tank. Picked up the 5 in 1 test kit today, everything is perfect, 0 Nitrate and 0 Nitrite, PH was same 7.2 to 7.8, Alkalinity was between the 2 ideal range colors, and I have sort of hard water (which I already knew).