What do I need to know about Bettas??

[Emily]

I have 3 planted tanks currently, low-tech so the growth is slower, but they're fillying out very nicely. I would consider a 10g much too small for a sorority, 20 gallons seem to work best, but I'm sure it varies, and I'm not a big fan of sororities anyway. Personally I don't like under-gravel filters since maintenance typically requires dismantling the whole tank, and they obviously aren't appropriate for planted tanks, but I know several of the betta tank kits have them.

Depends on the size of the sorority. If its 4 females, then a ten gallon works just fine. If its any more then I agree, a larger tank is needed. I don't like huge sorority tanks because there is a larger potential for aggressive behaviour, depending on the dominant nature of each fish. Although I would generally only have about 5-6 females at any one time, its difficult to pick out really healthy girls, because the supplier generally has little or no info on their lines.

I agree about the undergravel filters though, they are blech. But I know so many uninformed people who buy high flow filters without sponges and suck up their fish. I've adopted and nursed numerous disfigured bettas. So I suggest them for beginners who will have plastic gravel and whatnot.

[wodesorel]

NOW- can we talk accessories for a moment? I know I need filter, heater, thermometer, test kits, decor for hiding/resting in, what else? I see people mentioning vacuuming sub and scraping walls. Necessary? What else do I need?

Test kit needs to contain ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite. pH isn't important. Some of the kits aren't really complete, so make sure to see what it contains. Liquid drop kits are more accurate and last longer than the dip strips. A vacuum is a little pipe on the end of a long tube that is uses gravity to suck up water and put it into a bucket. This is how you remove any solid waste and leftover food so it doesn't rot and cause bad conditions. A scraper is a good thing to have on hand as you may get algae or diatom (brown) blooms and you'll need to clean the glass. Cotton balls can work in a pinch, but it's not going to get the glass sparkling.

And when you do water changes- are you just scooping water out with a large cup or something? For a 5-6 g tank you don't need any special pumpy thing for that, right?

That's what the vacuum is for. It'll remove both the water and the solids from the gravel at the same time, which is what keeps the tank clean. I do start them by sucking water through them like a straw because it's so much faster, though there are many different models where you don't have to do that. )A mouthful of yucky tank water is not fun!)

Also- do you recommend cycling the tank using ammonia drops? I'm not sure how that whole ball gets rolling if you're not putting the fish in first. Or do you just put the fish in and keep a close eye on it for the first month or so?

YES, use the drops! This way there's no risk to the fish of being poisoning or dying, and you don't have to monitor the tank three times a day to keep them safe. The ammonia you put into the tank mimics the fish pee that would normally be created. The bacteria don't know the difference and will eat the ammonia as happily as they will fish waste. This allows enough bacteria to grow first to be able to process the fish waste as fast as it's created when you do finally add fish, so there will never be any ammonia (and then nitrite) to hurt the fish.

On another note: not much progress on the 'convincing the husband' front. Here's our conversation from this morning....
Me: So how about we put a little tank on that shelf?
Him: No, we just got that shelf all organized and clear
Me: Yeah! So we now we can put a little tank there.
Him: but we just got it all cleaned off!
Me: I know! So...?

Sounds so familiar!!

Maybe you had to be there....but my birthday is coming up...so now's my chance.... If not, I'm considering putting one in my classroom. Thoughts?

Happy birthday!

The only downside to tanks in school is cleaning staff and temperatures. Make sure that you'll be allowed to run the heater over weekends and breaks, or the fish will suffer and will probably die. Bodies of water are very stable when it comes to temperature and water chemistry, which is why fish are so sensitive to the smallest things. They're not used to air temps that change wildly from day to night or from day to day, and small tanks will match the surrounding air very quickly without a heater in place. (Plus, the cleaning staff needs to know not to spray anything around or on top of the tank, as it doesn't take much cleaning supplies to kill fish.)

[sugarselections]

I prefer a ten gallon for any betta fish, sorority of male, but a 6 gallon isn't bad.

I know that walmart has tanks with under-gravel filters which are also really good for bettas, usually the 6 gallon version is better.

I assume you meant a sorority of females. Any time I get the chance I beg people not to try betta sorority tanks. 99.9% of the time it does not work out, even for experienced fish keepers. I know people who have set up seemingly wonderful sorority tanks where all the females were chosen based on mild temperments and everything would work out great for months, even years. Then one day the relations in the tank shift and one or two female bettas go berserk and kill the others. A while ago I rescued a female who had been happily living in a sorority tank until all the other females suddenly turned against her and tormented her. Unfortunately, I got her too late and she wasn't able to recover from the stress and injuries. I don't know why people continue to think female bettas are so much less aggressive than the males. The most vicious betta I've ever had is my current little pink girl, Stevie. She tries to attack anything outside her tank and when I have to put my hand in the water she circles it like a shark and then strikes at me over and over again. When I had nerite snails in her tank she chewed off all their antenna. She attacks the gravel vac and cleaning sponge relentlessly.

Personally, I think about 5 gallons is a really nice amount of water for a betta. 10 gallons would be okay but is really not needed. I have a giant male in one of my 6.6 gallon Chi tanks and I think the gallonage fits him perfectly. And he is a very big boy. The first time my mom came to see him she asked if he was a carp.

[Happy Crabber]

I read on nippy fish that one could add some neon tetras with a betta. Have u guys tried that? Would u need a 10g or could a 5g work?


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[wodesorel]

I had a male betta once that killed a cory cat by repeatedly body slamming it into the gravel. By the time I realized what the noise was it was way too late to save the poor thing. It really depends on the betta on if you can have it in with tank mates. Some are master hunters (especially the females) and they don't do well just watching other thing in their space. I have my giant male in my 20 gallon community tank with a bunch of bottom dwellers and he leaves them alone because they never come off the substrate. I don't think he would do well with something else swimming in his space, ya know?

I had also tried a 10 gallon sorority at one point, and the girls hurt each other so badly in just one day that none of them ended up surviving due to secondary bacterial infection of their wounds. It was ugly. Really really ugly. I've heard that in order to really make it successful you have to get sisters who have never been separated from each other, and then never separate them for any reason for as long as they live. For something like that you would have to find a breeder, and it's something I've been wanting to do but just haven't have the space for it. The tank would also have to be heavily planted for it to work - and by heavily planted I mean you can't see through the thing for the amount of plants in it.

Neons are a schooling fish, meaning they need to be in groups of at least 5 or 6 to feel comfortable. They are also extremely active and should be a 20 gallon or larger due to the number that should be kept and the space they need to swim around. (Very much like hermits. )

[Emily]

[quote="Happy Crabber"]

Emily- I've really been enjoying that Nippyfish site. Do you find that info to be pretty accurate?
[/quote="Happy Crabber"]

Nippyfish is great! I looked over their "betta care 101" page only though. That information was fantastic. With one exception. I don't agree that 2.5 gallons is an adequate "minimum" size for a male betta.

5-10 gallons is better. There is more room for plants, hiding places, the heater, the filters, and other necessary accessories. 2 gallons is a good quarantine or hospital tank, but 5-10 makes the fish happier, more active, more colourful, bigger, more reactive, etc. And any bettas with an XL tail type (halfmoons, double halfmoons, etc) absolutely need the space to swim and to develop their full tail. Smaller tanks are related with stunted tails etc.

The bigger tank might also help prolong the life of your fish.

[sugarselections]

Sugar- I'm so happy to see your tanks! They are awesome. I really like the look of the Fluval Chi. I also like the narrow rectangular one, forget what its called. But it has a big gap in the hood for the light, so I'm not sure if they''d jump out or not.

SO- does that lid work well for betas? Is it close enough to the filter that they can't jump out?
What heater do you use with those? Is the fluval one adjustable?

Are those in your room? It must sound amazing to have four waterfalls. Is the filter noisy?
Its really great to see how much decor you put in the tanks. Its hard to know how much is enough, or too much.

NOW- can we talk accessories for a moment? I know I need filter, heater, thermometer, test kits, decor for hiding/resting in, what else? I see people mentioning vacuuming sub and scraping walls. Necessary? What else do I need?

And when you do water changes- are you just scooping water out with a large cup or something? For a 5-6 g tank you don't need any special pumpy thing for that, right?

I think the long, rectangular Fluval might be one of the versions of the Spec. I did look at that model a while ago at a Petsmart when I was buying my View but I felt it was too narrow.

I will honestly tell you that the lid on the Chi is not completely safe if you do some inadvisable things (like I did!) There is about a 1/2 inch gap between the cube and the lid so the water can flow down. Under normal cirumstances a betta will not escape because the gap is small and the water is falling down in the gap and a fish would have to have supernatural strength and accuracy to get that jump right. Unfortunately, I used to overfill my Chi tanks so the water level was sometimes even touching the lid. I also kept betta logs in all my tanks (which are too large to actually fit the space but I cut them down because my fish love them so much.) This created a perfect storm in which my giant male, Theodore, attempted to swim over his log where it rests against the cube. Because he is so large he probably got stuck midway and thrashed around. Because I kept the water level too high, he flopped himself right out of the tank through the gap in the lid and spent some quality time with the carpet. I believe he spent several hours outside the tank before I found him and he was crispy and unresponsive. He showed signs of life once I put him in water but had to spend a month recovering in a small iso tank. He had large amounts of necrotic tissue which basically rotted off. He lost about 75% of his fins. I thought he was a goner but he is currently almost completely recovered and back in his Chi. Of course, I now keep the water at the proper level and he has been banned from having a log.

I use Aqueon heaters. The black Aqueon Pro heaters are the best but I could not find anyone that had them in stock when I was setting up my 5 gallons so those two tanks have the standard glass Aqueon heater. Not as good as the Pro, but still better than most brands. I actually bought a Fluval heater (the silver stick kind) but when I got it home the directions said you couldn't submerge the top at all so it wouldn't work in the Chi. I have since looked at the reviews on Amazon and a lot of people submerge the Fluval heater completely anyway and have found that they still work well and are safe. My biggest tip on heaters is just to make sure you get one with an adjustable knob for the thermostat. The ones that say they're already set to the perfect temperature are crap.

I find the waterfall of the Chi more annoying than soothing. Especially when they're in stereo. The kit comes with a little acrylic box on legs with pebbles inside that you can put on top of the output to spread the flow and deaden the noise. I used those but currently just have a big, smooth, flat-ish rock angled over each output so there's no noise and it reduces the water movement down into the tank. The filter motor is super strong and pretty much silent.

I think everyone has their own decorating preferences when it comes to aquariums. I like a big piece of resin decor that looks natural and lots of green fake plants. I tailor the colored plants in each tank to the occpupant so that the color of the fish and the plants are contrasting and that makes for better viewing of the fish.

I use an Eheim battery operated gravel vac. I had trouble with the siphon type but they do a better job so I'll probably be buying one eventually and trying it again. However, I've been able to maintain my tanks perfectly over the past few years using the Eheim.

My tanks are in my "vulnerable pet room" with my hermit crabs and sugar gliders. (I used to call it my office, but with all the critters in here now my desk is the most insignifcant part of the room.) The door is ALWAYS kept closed because my dogs and one of my cats have super high prey drives.

Part of successfully keeping fish as pets is taking in all the good advice you can find and then figuring out what works for you. I highly advise paying particular attention to anything Wodesorel says. I was confused when I got my first betta and I ended up searching through all her old posts here that had to do with fish and applying her advice.

[Happy Crabber]

So much good info. Thanks guys. This is so helpful. I love learning all this stuff. Can't wait to get started....

[Happy Crabber]

PROGRESS on the Fish-Front!!
This time, better strategy.... Suggested a place in our room that hasn't been reorganized yet. Its still a messy pile of my books and CDs. Then....I got him to realize that a beautiful little tank would be much better than my dusty pile of music.....Now I just need to do some measuring to make sure the tank I want fits.
There was then a brief discussion of the new Playstation that comes out in November, as perhaps a "grand bargain.' Which is also a good strategy, because he ends up buying those things either way.- He works in video games, so after almost 8 years of marriage, I've learned that putting up a fight on that stuff never really works out in my favor.

Soooo excited....

[Emily]

Hey guys, I found a website that's a forum dedicated to betta fish care, like our HCA, its just called bettafish.com
Keep in mind that just like the HCA there is good and bad information out there. There are moderators on that website, but since betta fish are a much more popular pet than hermit crabs, it's harder to filter out the bad information quickly.

There are lots of cool articles, and some interesting ideas on that website. So take a look.

[Eugooglizer]

Hey guys, I found a website that's a forum dedicated to betta fish care, like our HCA, its just called bettafish.com
Keep in mind that just like the HCA there is good and bad information out there. There are moderators on that website, but since betta fish are a much more popular pet than hermit crabs, it's harder to filter out the bad information quickly.

There are lots of cool articles, and some interesting ideas on that website. So take a look.

Here is the forum I recommend: http://www.bettafish.com/

Excellent post on sponge filters: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=126530

Theres also a classifieds section where breeders will post available fish as well as people rehoming theirs, etc. that you can use to try and find someone local or at least get recommendations. I know there are def some good breeders in cali, just not sure which areas exactly.

[Emily]

Haha I didn't even check!

[Happy Crabber]

Heaters: I'm looking for an adjustable 25watt heater,,,,, right?

I found the Hydor Theo ($15ish), and the Eheim Jagger ($25ish) on Amazon. Is one brand higher quality than the other? That's a pretty big price difference. What do you guys suggest?



And- this?
http://www.amazon.com/DrTims-Aquatics-N ... UTF8&psc=1

So does one add a product like this after adding the ammonia drops? would a product like this add both nitrates and nitrites, and the bacteria needed to cycle the tank?

Thanks guys.

[wodesorel]

25W or 50W - if you keep your house colder or it's in a drafty spot, a 50W will last longer as a 25W would run too often. Conversely, if you keep your house warmer then a 50W would be kicking on and off too much causing it to burn out quicker.

Heaters are a personal choice. Personally I like the Aqueon Pro as they have a light indicating that they're working. I've had two glass Hydors spring leaks around the seal after a few years of use so I'm a bit vary of them. Look for a brand that can be submerged and that will automatically turn off when out of water. (Safety features.)

Definitely shop around. The bottom shoppnig links we have listed for crab supplies also sell fish supplies at great prices. I've saved over $20 on a single heater just by taking advantage of sales and free shipping offers. http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/pa ... pping.html

Not so sure about the nitrifying bacteria. The kind that needs to populate a fish tank requires a constant source of oxygen (hence the filter to move oxygenated water past it) and a food source (ammonia) in order to stay alive. This is why if the power fails for a day or two it can crash the tank completely. The product you linked would have to be produce fresh all the time, and then kept refrigerated to keep the bacteria in status until you used it. There are a lot of snake oils out there when it comes to fish and hermit crabs and reptiles. Just be careful - if you do try it don't trust it until you do the water tests so you know for sure it is working.

[wodesorel]

Wanted to add that all y'alls talk about bettas got me jonesing really bad, and of course there were two with severe ammonia poisoning when I took at peak at the store bettas tonight. So, two KKs later and we have two new additions. :roll: I have no idea where they'll go long term if they survive, but we couldn't just leave them there, ya know?