My Straw (Perlatus) baby thread

This area is dedicated to the pioneers who have captive bred crabs, and for those who wish to learn more or attempt it themselves. Also for inquiring about the gender of your crabs.
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kuza
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Re: My Straw baby attempt thread.

Post by kuza » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:54 pm

It's on!

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And a picture of the full setup:

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And some up close video, this is with the bubbler off so all the action you see if from the zoea, they are super active, and seem to be looking for food:

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And a video of the full setup:
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And shells I found, getting a bit ahead of myself now :)

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Nat_addicted to HC's
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Re: My Straw baby attempt thread.

Post by Nat_addicted to HC's » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:33 am

Wow this is fantastic! Good luck!!
Natalie van Amstel

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it's about how you danced in the rain!

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kuza
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Re: My Straw baby attempt thread.

Post by kuza » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:36 am

Nat_addicted to HC's wrote:Wow this is fantastic! Good luck!!
thanks!! but I'm stuck with no food right now. Is there anything I could have around the house or I could buy at any standard aquarium/pet store? They seem to be trying to eat off the ground/bottom of the jar. Some of them are trying to eat the sand that got mixed in when I emptied them out of the crab tank water dish.

I could start some brine shrimp tomorrow but they take up to 24 hours to be ready, will they all die by then?

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Re: My Straw baby attempt thread.

Post by Nat_addicted to HC's » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:39 am

I got some fry food when i first started trying, perhaps that would be ok for now, its a fine sinking crumb. Your fish shop should have some
Natalie van Amstel

Life isn't about how you survived the storm...
it's about how you danced in the rain!

Australia's Online Land Hermit Crab Food,Treats and Accessories Store
CURRENTLY CLOSED SORRY
http://www.ihavecrabs.com.au

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Curlz
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Re: My Straw baby attempt thread.

Post by Curlz » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:01 am

CONGRATZ! :)

some advice:
too many larvae in the jar!
the water will getting too bad too soon.
try to keep 50 larvae. believe me, you will never be able to raise them all up.

the do not eat from the bottom! their body is not able to do so. Their mouth is between "head" and "stomache". With their moth and catching arms they are not able to pick something up from the ground. Their little arms at the stomache catch the food and so they can eat.

here is a larvae (head and a little bit of stomache)
Image
red = mouth
black arrow = head antenna
blue arrow = swimming arms

Non swimming food will not help. Artemia nauplii are necessarry.

But no panic, they will stay alive the frist 24 h without food!

So please do no experiment with any other food. The water will get bad very soon.

they are on the floor because the have no "kreisel" stream. The 'round' bottom of the jar reflect the light. They always swimm to the light.
And there is no stream to 'hold' or 'keep' them in the middle of the water.




P.s. @ kuza: may I use some fotos for a thread in our german forum?
It is exciting for us all and we are all curious about your experiment! :)
Last edited by Curlz on Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Love sincerly,

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my Hermit Blog http://curlz-crabs.blogspot.de/

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kuza
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Re: My Straw baby attempt thread.

Post by kuza » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:24 am

ok this is great info, maybe I should turn the bubbles up more. Most of them are kept in the "stream" or flow of the water, they are actually swimming down to the bottom on their own.

I have split them off into more jars since the video and pictures, I'm up to 3 jars already and today I will split them up again into 4-5 Jars until they are much less per jar

And of course you can share my pictures on the other forums :)

A few questions:

1. How do I separate the dead ones if I find them?
2. Can I try to feed them decapsulated brine shrimp eggs directly in their jars? I do have this food on it's way from the mail.
3. Do I turn off the bubbler to do water changes? They are still all over the Jar when I do, I can't seem to make them go to one side of the jar even with a flashlight. They just swim everywhere!

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Re: My Straw baby attempt thread.

Post by Curlz » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:15 am

first of all: thx for the permission :)
kuza wrote: A few questions:

1. How do I separate the dead ones if I find them?
I use a dropper.
put off the bubbles, wait a few minutes and may you can us a dropper to drawn them up from the floor/ground.
kuza wrote: 2. Can I try to feed them decapsulated brine shrimp eggs directly in their jars? I do have this food on it's way from the mail.
yes I would try this.
in my own current experimant I used decapsulated brine shrimp eggs (fishfood non hatchable)
kuza wrote: 3. Do I turn off the bubbler to do water changes? They are still all over the Jar when I do, I can't seem to make them go to one side of the jar even with a flashlight. They just swim everywhere!
Yes i would turn off the bubbler.

Do you have a flexible tube with a net (for example a piece of a silk pantyhose) fixed at the end?
that will prevent the larvae to suck in. (some will made it through the net maybe, but you can catch them with a dropper and put them back into the jar)



Splitting off is a good idea.
You should not forget, if there are a lot of larvae you have to feed very much to get each larvae sated.
Less larvae and enough food will increase the chance of each larvae to survive.
Love sincerly,

Curlz
and her pinchers

my Hermit Blog http://curlz-crabs.blogspot.de/

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Re: My Straw (Perlatus) baby thread. -Update: zoea are a go

Post by kuza » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:55 am

ok, so do I just "flush" the extra? I feel so bad losing any, I feel like those could be the ones that make it to land, hehe. But we'll see how much I can split them off, maybe I can have 5 Jar's going and then 1 jar for brine shrimp. Or today I will buy a brine shrimp breeder and have 6 whole jars for the zoea.

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Re: My Straw (Perlatus) baby thread. -Update: zoea are a go

Post by Curlz » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:17 am

kuza wrote:I feel so bad losing any, I feel like those could be the ones that make it to land, hehe.
ohhh I know how you feel about that! U feel exactly the same all the time.

in my last experiments I did catch too many, because of that feeling.
in my successfull breedings project I just had luck. The food was enough for the larvae. In all other tries not.

This time I took round about 50. And I got still round about 50 in 5 litre. And it seems that this time it is running better ... (round about 400 larvae end up in the kitchen sink) *sigh*


kuza wrote:ok, so do I just "flush" the extra?
sorry I do not understand? can you please explain it?
Love sincerly,

Curlz
and her pinchers

my Hermit Blog http://curlz-crabs.blogspot.de/

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Re: My Straw (Perlatus) baby thread. -Update: zoea are a go

Post by lefty » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:49 am

for my seahorse babies i use "reef chili" from bulk reef supply .com, there is nothing bad in it . i start with live brine ,but i think the zoea might eat that right away it has plankton,copepods,spirulina,yeast,astaxanthin,rotifers, vitamins(1-50microns)of artemia nauplii. shake it in the bottle comes with and part water from aquarium, all natural tiny nutrients for carnivors. as little guys they kinda look the same
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Re: My Straw (Perlatus) baby thread. -Update: zoea are a go

Post by kuza » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:12 am

flush I mean down the toilet, I guess the kitchen sink is the same thing. I'll try to separate them into as many jars as I can keep going at once, I think I can do 6 jars if I find a brine shrimp hatchery that is self contained.

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Re: My Straw (Perlatus) baby thread. -Update: zoea are a go

Post by Rocky » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:41 am

Unless you want to try to feed them to your adult crabs, I'd just flush the babies that pass :( I don't know if they'd eat their dead siblings, but I can imagine it'd foul the water really quickly.
If you want to try some different food sources, experiment! Really, the only way we can make progress is through experimentation, and that means failed experiments too. There is no "one right way" to do this because we honestly don't know that much about the babies.
Something you could try would maybe be crushed FD krill or bloodworms? Or spirinula powder?
We're not asked to do great things, we're asked to do all things with great care.
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Re: My Straw (Perlatus) baby thread. -Update: zoea are a go

Post by Curlz » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:46 pm

but I can imagine it'd foul the water really quickly.
I thought like this at the beginning. But I learned from marine breeders who are professionals in breeding marine shrimps (easy and difficult species). There are some experiments with marine hermit crabs, difficult marine fishes and sea horses. They have got experience of over 30 years and I believe them.

And with my project I had to read a lot of things about sea water, salt, aquariums, about algae, about brine shimps and stuff. To understand all the backgrounds.

Puttin in powder food, pellets or frozen food is risky, because the water can turn bad very fast! You have to control phosphate, nitrite, nitrate and stuff often. But this is not that easy, because of water changing. In my case I change nearly 50% water every day (depends on dirt). The values are not measurable correctly.
I know a fish experiment in which the fish larvae are always dying. And they have found out, that a little higher value of Po4 (Phosphate) was the reason, caused by frozen krill.

in a big sea water aquarium it is not that easy to keep a good balanced water. In a very small tank, like kuza's jar or my Kreisel tank, the water is very tricky.

Something you could try would maybe be crushed FD krill or bloodworms? Or spirinula powder?
in my opinion:
I know, the hermit crab larvae are something like 'hunters'. They need living food. They catch their food if it 'swimm' near. They can't pick up food like powder food or pellets. Most of the things sink to the floor very fast and the larvae can not reach it. (even the "instant baby brine shrimps")

And I never saw a larvae catch something else than brine shrimp.


Hermit larvae do not eat like brine shrimps (for example). They probably to not filter algae and stuff. But this is not proven.
The marine breeders adviced me to use living phytoplankton (an algae mix) to get an ocean milieu. Because in other breedings project it is usefull. But the algae will never be enough as food.

Zoo plankton like copepods is risky, too. Some of them can grow bigger than the larvae and can threat them. Some can be too small ot too big.
And like brine shrimp you have to seperate them to get them out of the water. Too many zoo plankton can destroy the water.


Yes. There is no "that one way to raise land hermit crabs" but living freshly hatched brine shrimps is THE food in the matter of marine breeding

Please excuse me when my advices sound strange or overbearing or something like that!
I only want to help and share my knowledge.
And I think: why should you expirience and risk the larvae life, if there are good results with freshly hatched brine shrimps? Why should you "reinvent the wheel"?
Love sincerly,

Curlz
and her pinchers

my Hermit Blog http://curlz-crabs.blogspot.de/

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kuza
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Re: My Straw (Perlatus) baby thread. -Update: zoea are a go

Post by kuza » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:34 pm

I don't find it overbearing at all, I like that you're giving me solid advice.

I picked up some stuff to try today, and even some bring shrimp to start getting those going so things are looking up!!

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Re: My Straw (Perlatus) baby thread. -Update: zoea are a go

Post by Leeko » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:42 pm

Is this a first? Baby straws bred in captivity? Man this is exciting stuff! I will be watching your progress like a hawk! :lol:

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