My Straw (Perlatus) baby thread

[kuza]

OMG she's got eggs AGAIN. And they drop in roughly 25 days, soooo I guess it's good I'm use a large tank, so i can have attempt #2 going at the same time as attempt #1. This is crazy! I'm going to get another set of 6 Jars right now.

ok I got new jars and switched ou my original 4 jars with new ones and the water is super clear now, i think it was algae building up inside the jar. It's so easy to switch jars that I'll do this every few days.

[Happy Crabber]

Wow! This is amazing, I love it! Congrats big crabby daddy!


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[gplover78]

This is really amazing!!! Continue the great work and good luck!

[Leeko]

Wow wow wow. Every time I check this thread I buzz with excitement a little. I am in love with the idea of buying some home-grown crabs from HCA members someday. How's that for supporting suppliers that have humane conditions?!

Kuza you should, like, write a scholarly article about this or something. If it's really a first-ever thing, there's a possibility of being published maybe? I'm not really sure how academic journals work. Who knows!

[Curlz]

50 per jar or less (yes I know it is hard). Even if they do not die now, the feedback of too less food will be shown later.
Specially while motling and the have up to 4-5 moting times.

In my 5th and 6th attempt I got problems with algae. It seems that it was too much plankton. So please be carefull with any addings to the water.
Only one or drops per jar. And if you do no water change over 50% than put in plankton only once a week.
In my last two tries I got problems and I believe it was a combination of plankton and non good food. And I uses reef elements as a water add-in.

less is more as it seems.

In my current experiment I am using only one kind of algae (phytoplankton) and I only using freshly hatched brine shrimp. And I did not use the "instant baby brine shrimp". I do not need it, becuase of less larvae and the freshly hatched brine shrimp are enough.
And because of less larvae the "dirt" is not that much. All looks better, that's why I advice you to use only a few larvae per jar.



Oh I hope to get a documentation about the development of Kuza's strawberry larvae !
because there is no official biological documentation. It is even unknown how much larvae stages they have, nor when they turn into megalopa stage nor when they take shells.....
and piiiiiictures

[wodesorel]

Kuza - have they shown signs of molting yet? In the other attempts they were molting every 3-4 days, so it should be about time for them to start.

If you're lucky and they do have a fast molting cycle you may actually be able to clear out batch 1 before batch 2 arrives!

[kuza]

Switching the jars got rid of all the algae so I'm good there. My setup makes it really easy to do water changes and to switch the whole jar if I want, I could even do that daily and the water become crystal clear again.

I've been getting the numbers down so there's only a few hundred per jar, I'll take even more out today to get it down to around 50 per jar. How the heck did you count them? lol!

And I'm now only using the baby brine shrimp for food, I'm not adding phytoplankton again yet, maybe one more drop in a few days like you said. But I agree they really like the brine shrimp, they eat it all so I never have to remove any.

Today's questions;

1. They also seem to eat the algae when they are hungry so maybe it's a good thing and I shouldn't change the jars? It seems to cloud the water a bit, and quickly.

2. How do you prevent the brine shrimp eggs from sticking to the sides of the hatchery? They keep getting stuck tot he wall because of the bubbles.

3. I'm not sure how to see if they are molting, I haven't seen it yet. Do they molt 4-5 times in each zoea stage, or does each molt lead tot he next stage? And are they really eating twice a day or is to feed the ones that didn't get any on the first feeding?

4. Can they eat too much brine shrimp? Like can they get that swim bladder issue? Because there's a few at the bottom that seem super full, like they ate too much and can't swim off the bottom, but they are still alive. Maybe they are molting? I will try to post a video of it. Maybe they got an egg by mistake and are constipated.

I have pictures every day I just don't always put them up, no time

[kuza]

Wow wow wow. Every time I check this thread I buzz with excitement a little. I am in love with the idea of buying some home-grown crabs from HCA members someday. How's that for supporting suppliers that have humane conditions?!

Kuza you should, like, write a scholarly article about this or something. If it's really a first-ever thing, there's a possibility of being published maybe? I'm not really sure how academic journals work. Who knows!

haha thanks!

Well it'll only be the first time for Strawberry hermit crabs since curlz and NAT have done it with viola and aussies. But it does feel special!

[Careyenz]

Unbelievable! You're a machine, Kuza! You can do it!!

[fraksocks]

I was reading through this thread and the issues of feeding live baby brine shrimp (timing has to be just right to ensure that they are at their most nutritious but aren't too big) and it got me wondering if microworms like the type that are cultured by fish breeders would be something that would be suitable to feed the zoea? They are easy to culture, smaller than baby brineshrimp and highly nutritious (being a good source of both proteins and fats which is why they are used for feeding very small fish fry). The main issue that I see is that they don't survive long in water, but it sounds like the brine shrimp have to be continually removed during water changes anyway. Maybe the microworms could be a suitable food until the zoea are big enough to more consistently eat the brine shrimp? Or as a supplemental food offered along side the brine shrimp?

[Curlz]

hm I searched for microworms (Panagrellus redivivus) and I found an article.

(Sorry I had to use google translate for it:)

Under no circumstances should you remove microworms directly from the substrate and feed unwashed. The substrate is heavily infiltrated with bacteria, but most of them although lactic acid bacteria are likely to be because you can never be sure. Yeast has also lost nothing in the aquarium water. Extracted from peripheral vascular animals are clean enough for probably most of the fish species, with fish breeds, you should wash them in every case.

uhhh I would not feed these worms (if these are ment)



(my answers in "blue")

Today's questions;

1. They also seem to eat the algae when they are hungry so maybe it's a good thing and I shouldn't change the jars? It seems to cloud the water a bit, and quickly.
You can see them eating algae? I only could see the algae from the phytoplankton whit a microscope.

yes algae make the water cloudy.
In my last failed tries I used too much plankton and this causes problems.
my own theory, unconfirmed!: the algae sticked at the larvae, at their molting odds. and it clogged the intestine together with bacteria or anything else.
I used living phytoplankton, because I was adviced to use this instead of synthetic or concentrate plankton.

In my newest experiment I am using only very little drops phytoplankton (Nannochloropsis). Once or twice in a week.
If I knew if plankton is good or bad (for larvae and water) I were a little wiser in case of breeing larvae
it is trial an error.



2. How do you prevent the brine shrimp eggs from sticking to the sides of the hatchery? They keep getting stuck tot he wall because of the bubbles.
That's normal. We clean up the side of our Kreisel every day. And I use my palstic dropper to drawn them up.
In my brine shrimp plastic jars I left the eggs. Because after feeding I set up new jar of brine shrimps. I am only using freshly hatched brine shrimps and empty out thr jar to set up new eggs.

3. I'm not sure how to see if they are molting, I haven't seen it yet. Do they molt 4-5 times in each zoea stage, or does each molt lead tot he next stage? And are they really eating twice a day or is to feed the ones that didn't get any on the first feeding?
They are molting very fast, if all runs good. A molt will be done in a few seconds, complete molting time can be a few hours.
After a few days (1-3) the are motling into the next larvae stage. A few days later (depends on the species) they are molting again into the next Zoea stage. Again a few days later into the next zoea stage, till the transmorph (molt) to a megalopa. Up to 4-5 zoaestages.

they are eating several times a day! That's why I put in fresh brine shrimp eggs every 3 hours. So that they have freshly hatched brine shrimps every 3 hours...


4. Can they eat too much brine shrimp? Like can they get that swim bladder issue? Because there's a few at the bottom that seem super full, like they ate too much and can't swim off the bottom, but they are still alive. Maybe they are molting? I will try to post a video of it. Maybe they got an egg by mistake and are constipated.

They molt while swimming. They eat while swimming.
when they are laying onto the floor, the are maybe dead or weak. If a larvae is always near the ground it is no good sign, in my opinion.
As I already told you, if they have not get enough food the first days, they will get week an die a week later or some days. (unconfirmed)

But maybe the light is refecting or the stream is not that good, so that the stay on the ground. I do not know, can be everything.

What I can say is that the best case is when they are swimming in the middle of the water and are hold there by the waterstream.

(when they catch an egg, they leave it after a short time. They know what to eat and what is no good.)

[kuza]

great, thanks again! The few that were on the bottom seemed alive and moving but almost too heavy to get back up into the stream, so maybe they did each a brine shrimp egg and got constipated. I could see they were loaded with food.

I have removed a lot of them and I believe they have all eaten every day.

I didn't know you fed them every 3 hours, I've been feeding them every 10 - 12 hours in my 2 hatchery cycle. I may have to change my habits, although my decapsulated brine shrimp eggs have come in, and I assume these would be very loaded with nutrients since the whole egg yoke would be there.

[Curlz]

The problem is, that all is trail and error.

Food can cause problems: bacteria (often from frozen food, brine shrimps eggs etc.)
too much food can make the water going bad.
too less the larvae get not enought and die.

Water can cause problems: not enough salt, too much salt

Temperature can cause problems: too hot (even for a short time), too low even for a short time.
It says it must be constanly warm. About 26°C.
24°C is too low, in the best case larvae develop slower, in worst case they are dying
28°C is too hot, it speeds up the development. But can kill them, too.

Additions can cause problems (algae, marine water elements, etc.)
......

so maybe they did each a brine shrimp egg and got constipated. I could see they were loaded with food.

if they constipated you can see it near the fin.

Let me search for pictures. I know that mine had constipated problems in one of my failed experiments.

And maybe I found picture of molting larvae and stuff




A larvae with something in its intestinal (died after a short time, unknown cause)
You can see the dark point near its fin. before it got dark it was like the colour of an artemia



Molting zoea 3 to zoea 4 stage:




and I found a video of a molting (should be zoea 3 to zoea 4 stage) of my successfull experiment (No.4)
https://picasaweb.google.com/1120608556 ... directlink
(Video 10 and 11)

[kuza]

ahh ok, that's exactly what I was looking for!! thanks again

I will swap in my decapsulated eggs between feedings and see if they eat them, I haven't tried them yet since I just got them in last night.

[Curlz]

Try it. I feed them decapsulated eggs, too. In times where I have cleaned up too good. (cleaned up the eggs and so only a few artemia hatched).

I put a little grain of decapsulated eggs and mix it with their saltwater. When these eggs are wet, the will sink a little better in the water.
The took and ate them. But not that much. Better than nothing.


Do you have the documentation fo "Development of compressus" by Brodie and Harvey? In this document you will find a sketch of each larvae stage (of E's).
Eventually Straws will develop like the most land hermit crabs, so I think you can orientate yourself towards this sketch.
And I gave you a spreadsheet with all known facts /dates of the development of lhc. Where you can estimate when they will be molting, or when they are molting.

I think you got it, kuza. You know the most important things. You know the 'way'. I know you are doing your best!
let's see what follows. I'll keep my fingers crossed.


uff...I dread to think, how many nonsense and wrong grammar I used in my threads. I always have problems with the periods and grammar. And I have to search in a dictionary to find the words I need.... omg