Why do many here think Indo's NEED saltwater?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:53 pm

To put it bluntly, they don't. They need it less than a PP does. In the wild, these crabs live the farthest from the ocean and presumably only drink rainwater.

Beat · Post by **Beat** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:58 pm

wow i never knew that..you can still give it to them, right? currently my 2 indos are in a tank with rugs and pp's so they have acess(sp?) to saltwater..its not bad for them, is it?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:29 pm

Are you totally sure that they never visit the ocean??
I have an Indo that spends at least an hour a day bathing in the salt water dish. I have also seen him drink it too. He has a choice, there are two pools in his tank, one fresh and the other salt. Hey usually spends time in the salt. It seems strange that they don't drink or bathe in it in the wild at all. ....Gives me something to think about...........
What study did you get all this from? I am not doubting you at all, but I'm very interested in further research.
Thanks!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:36 pm

Actually.......
I looked at Christa's site after reading your post and she recommends that Indo's be given salt water. So, you wanted to know why people think that............Christa says so!

Seriously though, she does recommend it and she goes on to state that many of the islands that they come from have no freshwater and that Indos are specially adapted to deal with that. Interesting.
Please let me know where you got your information, I'd love to get more info on this!
Thanks again......

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:14 pm

Yeah, if they never visit the ocean how do they reproduce and where would they lay their eggs?? If they never did visit the ocean, Indos would be extinct by now.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:51 am

I did a lot more research on this topic and I found a few references to go from. (namely Gross 1964) It seems that Indos do in fact need sea water, as do Purple Pinchers! Neither species needs to drink the water, but both keep water of varying salinities in their shells. This water is presumed to be smoothed over the gills for respiration and even mixed with fresh drinking water to increase the salinity. The salt helps the crab retain the water in the shell from evaporation.
Although many Indos spend much time inland, away from the shore, they still get the sea salt they need, which is stored in their shell water. They don't always have to visit the shore to acquire the needed salt. Any plant or animal debris that has come in contact with the shore water becomes the Indo's source of salt when far inland. Their diet makes up for the salt they are missing from the shore. It is also presumed that the salt in their urine (from those foods) increases the salinity of the shell water as well.
So, since these crabs do not have access to plant and animal debris from the shore, they should be given salt water in captivity to make up for this loss. Many hermie foods, such as FMR treat, contain sea salt and would probably be enough salt for an Indonesian crab. However, shouldn't we try to give our crabbies all that they need?
It seems that keeping salt water available for all species of land hermit crabs would be beneficial to some degree, so why not do all we can?
Sorry for the novel, this was kinda long winded.........whew!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:56 am

Hmm, interesting!

Well, no scientific research here, and I have no Indos. But anyone who lives near the ocean (and yet not necessarily at the beach) and parks a car outside knows that salty residue somehow ends up on your car certain days!

My supposition is that PPs and Indos in the wild also get "salty" without visiting the beach. But in our crabitats, where would they get it other than saltwater? Well, salty foods, but we know better than to give our crabbies table salt, right?

So I say, invest in a small bag of Instant Ocean or other aquarium salt for all crab species, they will enjoy it, even if they are the most terrestrial of hermit crab species!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:52 pm

Luvvin got her information from years of keeping hermit crabs.

As Peter Greenaway's frequently cited article shown, C. brevimanus are primarily freshwater users (like C. clypeatus), since they live farther inland.

Of course, it doesn't hurt to have salt water in the tank. My Indos are usually in the freshwater dish (bypassing the salt water on the way there), but occasionally take a dip in the salt water. Though it's becoming less and less common recently.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:43 pm

Thamster-
Have you read that article?? I'm not debating whether or not they drink it in the wild, I know they don't.
Greenaway does state that they only drink freshwater, but he also states that they get sea water from other sources in the wild, as do PPs. In the wild, Indos and PPs have high salinity in their shell water and in their system. He boldly states that although they do not drink sea water directly, they do get the needed salt from other sources, like plant and animal debris that have the needed salt on them. He states that although they are far inland, the sea water comes to them. I really don't want to go into parenthetical citations here, but both species intake sea water in the wild according to that article. Although they do not drink it directly, they get it from sources that are not readily available in captivity. So if they are getting it in the wild, why shouldn't we make it available?

If you still have doubts after reading the article, please PM me. I would be happy to go through the article to quote and cite the information I'm referring to.

I really do appreciate your input on this topic!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:36 pm

For all those interested, here is the link to the Greenaway article:
http://www.mov.vic.gov.au/memoirs/docs/ ... enaway.pdf
Happy reading!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:09 am

I'm worried about people bathing Indo's in saltwater, or bathing them at all. These crabs really need to make up their own minds whether they need it or not. I offer both kinds of water to all my crabs, just in case they feel like using it. I'm just concerned about the many posts here that say that Indo's HAVE to have access to saltwater, lumping them in with the exotics like rug's, E's, straws and cav's, who do need to have it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:50 am

That is an understandable concern. I don't remember anything in your post about bathing, but I take your point. However, there is research out there that says they do in fact consume it. PPs too! I'm having trouble understanding why an experienced crabber would take such a stance when there is conflicting evidence contained in this thread. If you give your crabs a choice, why would you not suggest others do the same? PPs and Indos are not in the same category as they do not drink the salt water (although Greenaway admits there is not enough research done on this) but they do consume sea salt. How else would they get it in their system? Shouldn't we give it to them? Why would we not do all we can??
To bathe or not to bathe is an entirely different point. Christa suggests that bathing crabbies is beneficial for many reasons, so as long as we take those reasons into account, we should be ok trying new things. I don't bathe my crabs, but I too have at least two pools in each of my tanks for crabbies to drink and bath in whichever water they choose.
I hope you don't think I'm argueing or anything. I am very passionate about doing all we can for our crabs in captivity. I am not trying to re-invent crab care, or doing anything else here for my own personal gain. I care about all my crabs very much, as well as everyone elses. My heart goes out to every little crabby I see at the mall, or all the poor dears suffering at Petco. None of us have "got it all figured out." I think if experienced members remain open minded, the learning will never stop on either front, which is all we can hope for.
Thanks for reading,

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:04 am

What I mean is that if you have only PP's and/or Indo's, then you don't need to rush out and buy saltwater mix. Carol of Crabworks has had two PP's for 30 years and never offered them saltwater. I only offer it to my PP's and Indo's because I have it for my exotics. They seem to only use it when they are first brought home and after molting.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:30 am

Carol does not offer her PPs salt water, but I do believe she sprinkles a certain brand of sea salt on their food on a regular basis. She might have not done this until later on in her crabbing legacy, but she has offered it to them. She has also stated in many of her posts that she thinks Jonathan and Kate are not as big as they would have been in the wild. We may never know the reason for this, as we don't know many things about crabs in the wild. Going off what we do know: All species of land hermit crabs enjoy and find some benefit in sea water being available to them. Gross' 1964 study suggests that Indos acquire sea salt from other means. de Wilde's study shows that PPs also carry sea water in their shells and in there systems.
Where do they get it? We don't know, but since we know they acquire it in the wild, shouldn't we give it to them in captivity? Why shouldn't we run out and buy all our hermies some instant ocean if it will make them more comfortable? Or happy? According to the article: they do need sea salt in their system! It is a part of their delicate framework involving digestion and respiration. Obviously it is not a life or death situation, but could the crab be suffering some uncomfortable illness from lack of salt? We don't know that either. Why take the chance? It seems pointless to advise otherwise. I'm sorry, but I really can't understand why you would tell other members they don't need it, then offer it to them yourself. I would hope that all the members here do all they can for their little friends and that they would advise everyone else to do the same.
Please don't take offense, I'm not meaning to be rude at all, but I feel that you are not taking this point seriously. Have you read the article? Just read the paragraph at the top of the 5th page of the document. It's right under the table that shows the salinity levels in Indo and PPs shells.
Thanks again,

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:39 am

Crabaddict wrote:Have you read that article??

Crabaddict, I read that article 7 months ago, the save date on my hard drive reads 1/2/2004. It actually did not state that C. brevimanus use sea water, only that they get their salt from the diet. Most of the articles out there have been around for a bit.

How new are the Indos? New Indos will usually hit the saltwater for a bit (probably not enough salt in their diet). After a short while, they will switch to fresh water consistently.

Your input is very welcome, however, for the sake of discussion, I suggest that instead of challenging the knowledge of other members, look into how long they've had hermit crabs. Many of them have had them as long as some of the sources you quote, and there can be many 'correct' ways to keep hermit crabs.