Loveable Exotics (coming soon)

[kitkathermiesworld]

Hello Everyone
So I decided to start my own business selling Exotic Hermit Crabs & Baby Bearded Dragons. Our estimate time for getting everything completed is approximately 5-6 months. We will offer 5 different species of Hermit Crabs ~ Straws ~ Violas~ Indos~ Ruggies~ & E's. Our Exotic crabs are being imported directly from Indonesia & Our Es are coming from a legit supplier in California.
We will have our Large spare room converted into a Big livable crabitat for them with it being 1,110 gallons + a second level that will stretch across the tank 60 inches. I will also have (6) Isolation tanks for any hermies that would need to be removed from our main tank. I will also have (2) 40 gallon tanks for our baby bearded dragons. I will also try to offer shells & food packages on our website once everything is completed .
I am in the process of planning every little detail out from how I want their tank to be constructed to permits, supplies, website, food, shipping supplies, & keeping up with Heating, Lighting, & Humidity in such a large enclosure. How to give each crab the proper care they need when taking care of soo many. So this will be a full time job for us.
I will keep this thread updated on our progress with our business. I would greatly appreciate any advice you have to offer. Since when more minds come together it makes a better result.
Mom23 & I we're just discussing if I should offer deep substrate (16") & keep them for about 2months to let some molt. Or should I keep the substrate low and just keep them for 2weeks to let them destress so they can hold off on their molts until they arrive at their new homes. I was a little worried about them pulling surface molts. But then I was also a little worried about them not being able to get shipped because alot will be underground. Any thoughts on this?
Also I'm thinking of a good tracking system so I can seperate them by health. So I know which crabs need more attention than others. I was thinking about buying tiny color dot stickers to place on the back of their shells. So when each one gets examined I would put blue on the ones that appeared to be in healthy condition, Yellow for fair condition, & Red for bad.

[kitkathermiesworld]

* I noticed I was saying (our) alot sorry but that's because my sister is one of my business partners also my fiance.

[Ellysara]

Are you planning on dividing up that tank? Either dividing it for each species and keep the color coding health thing in place or dividing it according to health of crabs. Theoretically, crabs in poor health would be less likely to pick on one another, because they wouldn't have enough energy to do so. But if you put the ones in poor health with the healthy ones they might get picked on more often. I think with a tank that size it might be wise to divide it up. Maybe with screen so that the heat and humidity will still flow through the whole tank. Also, you might consider using rubbermaid totes for your iso tanks so that you could afford more of them. If this whole room will be just for crabitats, I wonder if it would be more economical to use space heaters for the whole room rather than UTHs and lamps?

Just my rambling thoughts on the matter...

[crabbienewb]

My opinion is to go shallow substrate and just let them destress, otherwise you will have people waiting months and months and have no idea how many crabs you have. Plus if allowing room to molt, you have to stay within the crabs per gallon or close to it, I think there would be way too many chances of crabs digging up crabs when that many are in there. ISO tanks for any surface molts and other issues though. That way you don't have to worry about flooding issues because the tanks wouldn't have deep enough sub, and if you went eco earth, or a mix but iwth high eco earth you would easily be able to keep humidity up. I also think if you are able to keep them in a room where the entire room can be at 80 degrees or above it would be better, much easier too than heating that many other ways.

I would check the usps or whichever your shipment method would be, to see what range you are in for shipping, since i don't know your location. But just to be aware of the "Dead zones" from usps, those who they only guarantee 3 day delivery on.

I was also thinking storage totes would be cheaper, as lowes puts their 30 and 50G totes 75%-90% off right after Christmas, making them under $2.50 each.

I would figure out what you plan to do with their water, that many crabs are going to make the water nasty fast. Not sure about all species but my straws and my E's make their water really nasty, I can go every other day max on water changes, but with more crabs it would be daily plus it would probably still be really nasty.

And feeding, just my opinion here, but judging off the blues and straws I got, when they arrived to me, they were not nice to each other at the food bowl, and that lasted about a week. If i were you i would over feed to avoid injuries and avoid the smallest getting pushed out. Like on top of their protein sources, entire mangos, entire bananas, etc.

I think one of LHC biggest issues was shipping at the wrong times. So I don't recommend shipping in the winter. plus it makes about 0 sense to me that shipping goes in the order they were placed. When i order plants online shipping goes by the zones, and with live animals shipping should go by the weather. I mean why ship to someone who is still at 50 degrees when someone else is at 80+, and why ship when im at 100+ degrees (I was actually at 100 when my crabs arrived) I mean yes they still travel many states on their way to the destination but it's pretty easy to tell which places are within decent temperatures to go to and which aren't.

[kitkathermiesworld]

Thanks for the great feedback. I was thinking about purchasing storage bins also since they were soo affordable but I didnt know how good they would hold up with hermit crabs living in there, and they give off a strong plasticity smell (my opinion). Maybe it was just the brand I used but I was going to get 6-8 (10) Gallon tanks from the Petco dollar per gallon sale this November & I already have a 29 Gallon tank that can be used as a Iso.
I also decided to get a different size tank that will be built like a (L) shape with the measurements being
94"L x 36"W x 38" H + 94"L x 36"W x 38"H so it will be 1,113 gallons. I just wanted to be on the safe side when they come so none wont be piled up on top of each other. I will still have a second level but I'm not sure how long it would be yet.
As far as their water goes I didn't figure out how big it should be. I was thinking of using a large storage bins with river rocks, needlepoint canvas, & filters. Any other ideas?
I did however find a company that offers freeze dried sea creatures & insects by the Lb & their really inexpensive as well so I definitely will be ordering from them. I really wonder how much food 500 hermit crabs would go threw a day, knowing me I will probably buy too much food.
But I definitely agree with you about hermit crabs needing to be shipped during proper weather. I will also contact my local usps to find out their dead zones. I wouldn't think my city would be one because I've placed orders for one day shipping on Amazon & they always seem to come before 6pm the next day. But thanks for telling me about that because I didn't even know.

[TheLilMommaB]

I have only had my hermies for about a month so there is prolly a reason this isn't done that I don't know about yet but figured I'd ask away...do you think it would be better for the healthy hermies to be shipped out to orders as soon as possible instead of giving them 2 weeks to destress only to be stressed by another shipping to the customer and having to destress a second time so quickly? If that's possible it would allow more room for the less health hermies to destress and with less hermies more time could be devoted to the guys that need a little more help getting back to health? Like I said I'm pretty new at this and it was just something that crossed my mind when I noticed this post. Good luck with your new business. And if I ever feel brave enough to try some more delicate hermies you will be my first stop

Stay at home mommy to 4 kids (Ana 11, Joseph 9, Alizabeth 6, and Christian 2) 8 cats, 5 hermits, 4 little molly fish, 3 ferrets, 2 parrakets, 2 Oscars, 1 cockatiel, 1 goldfish and 1 bone headed pittbull.

[CallaLily]

Personally, I feel the crabs should be allowed time to dig/molt/destress. Even if that means having to wait on taking orders and needing an extremely large crabitat. The crabitat for this time period could be very basic but with a lot of substrate and a lot of space. Giving them the best possible chance, imo.



Maybe I'm being unrealistic. I couldn't help pop in with my thoughts on a destressing/molting period -- for whatever it's worth, coming from a crabber with no desire to make a purchase.

[KellyCrabbieLove]

I agree. I plan to order from you once everything is up and running. I would be much happier with crabs that had a better chance at survival as I'm sure others feel simarly. It is so stressful on them to make the original journey and some time between it and their journey to us will definitely make a difference in survival.

[kitkathermiesworld]

I originally said I would keep them for 2 months with deep substrate until they would be available to the public. But a HCA member was telling me the reason why pet stores dont offer deep substrate because alot will be underground trying to molt and would be unavailable to sell. I wouldn't be in a rush to hurry up and ship them only if it would be better for them to molt at their new home's with less crabs. I'm not money hungry at all so I wouldn't take no one's money if they were unavailable to sell. But that might be a little tricky managing who went down what day and who came up and who is still underground and how many will go down the next week. I would though be able to track how many crabs I have because I'll just minus from my original total how many we're shipped + how many casualties I had.

I would ship the healthiest one's first so the sick one's can have more TLC. But I dont think they would be real stressed coming from me to you overnight in a container filled with moss, food, & a heating pad. Like they would comimg from Indonesia to the USA (9,000miles). So I do think letting them destress here would be needed before they can get shipped. The problem is how long & and to offer deep substrate or not.
The one's who are in bad condition will be separated from my main tank so I can keep a closer eye on even if I had to buy more Iso tanks. I'm all about the welfare of my hermies because they would be under my care so its my responsibility.

[sofiaee]

I agree with CallaLily and based on the LHC thread people don't mind waiting as long as you update information. I had crabs shipped to me as a re-home and none of them died, all are doing well (it was two violas, a pp, and 3 E's). I really think that's because they had already been established and molted in the previous owners tank.

I think you should offer deep substrate and let them all molt at least once (although it might be hard to completely know for sure if they all molted but you know, try haha). You'd be able to offer much stronger crabs if you did that and as long as shipping goes well I think a lot less will die than with LHC. I don't think anyone would mind if you raised the prices to reflect the higher level of care they're receiving. And you could start a blog with pictures and updates or something to keep people on the same page and show off your habitat.

[sofiaee]

Also, I think if they need to molt they will try to in shallow substrate. I have a hospital tank (mites) right now with a pretty thin layer of eco earth, maybe 2 inches? And one of the smallest crabs, a pp, managed to find a spot to molt while I've been away at school. She was fine luckily but I'm not sure how it would go with as many crabs as you are going to have.

[kitkathermiesworld]

I finally found out my start up cost and whewww it's not cheap but I think it will totally be worth it for them....
Anyway I will definitely have pics & videos of everything once it gets started, their tank will be started and completed next month so everyone stay tune for that. I kind of made up my mind on the substrate ordeal but I would love to still here other's opinion
Right now I'm just trying to take in all the information I can get so I can have a successful business I appreciate everyone's feedback

[wodesorel]

Everyone loved the Hermit Crab Patch because they allowed their hermit crabs to molt before sale, and they would only ship during safe weather temperatures between May and September which earned them the support of the HCA. Now that they are no longer selling live crabs, there's an opening for that same level of care.

[crabbienewb]

This is where people are going to disagree. It's obviously best for the crabs if they are given a chance to molt, however, when it comes to 500 crabs, you are dealing with a way different situation. For example, I do not think my 8 crabs from lhc would have been better off left with 500 other crabs to molt because.

1. it would take months and months of them being there with 500 other crabs and 1-2 people watching. To me, it's not about the fact that i'd have to wait, it's the fact that they are in with so many other crabs and at such a huge risk of getting attacked, or surface molting, it's too many crabs for one person to watch when ALL are going to be stressed already, Here they are 8 crabs I can watch, are not overcrowded, and I can provide them individually and access them and it's easy for me to remember what is going on with each of them. No one can keep track of 500 crabs. Even if it's not 1 person and it's 10, it's 500 crabs with so many looking alike.

2. Shells. Unless you are going to offer them shells, and for 500 crabs that would be a ton of shells, I don't think it would be that safe to keep them for months.

3. I know my crabs have room here to molt. I know exactly who is down and who isn't.

Sure I would have rather received crabs already molted, but not if it means more are going to die from molt attacks, accidental digging up etc. because of not enough space.

Obviously letting the crabs molt is what is best for them. IF they are given the correct conditions. If they can't be given more room i think it's more risky to let them try and molt than the risk being taken stressing them out shipping without molts. I don't see how anyone can possibly give 500 new stressed crabs safe conditions to molt in and watch them. If it were 100-200 yeah, i could see that. Not 500. However I would at least like to know that the crabs in obvious need of a molt, the injured ones, etc, (and expect large numbers of that) could be put in a tank, and kept through a molt in good conditions, while others were shipped. I mean i guess you could pull it off with the size limitations if you just went taller, but i find it hard to imagine being able to give that many crabs the space to molt.

Just running through some thoughts. Maybe if you could find a way to order less, or someone to go in with you and split up the group, it would be able to make it work and let them molt. Maybe if someone else within driving distance of you wanted to go in as well. Maybe ordering only small/medium, or at least not xlarge and jumbo crabs, that would at least help a lot with space and make buying them shells affordable. Although if you went with small crabs, they probably are going to want/need to molt when you get them.

you could predatory mite treat the entire group upon arrival, which if effective would definitely help us all, as many of us paid the $50+ to treat our group, and may have to do second treatments. So I would gladly pay more for crabs who were treated for mites, and treated with predatory mites as opposed to baths that stress them out. So yeah, i would pay more, even without a mite free guarantee, if i KNEW they were treated with preds and not forced to do mite baths. Also ordering preds for a large colony would be cheap, the big cost in the predatory mites was in the shipping.

You could try offering only E's at first, there are enough people looking for them, or E's and pp's, which you probably still have time to get in the next month, and hold them till spring, to give you an idea of what it would take. since i don't think you'll be able to do exotics until next year, will be too cold here soon. I'm sure there are enough people willing to buy already molted E's and PP's. Especially E's, my store carries E's and I've never once found one that wasn't in bad need of a molt. I think that would at least be a way to start out and get a feel for what you are dealing with.

I am glad to hear you will only ship when the weather is good. Those heat and ice packs don't hold up. Heard of the heat pack failures before and i know the cold packs that came with my crabs didn't last. I would rather wait than have the crabs shipped in bad weather (both too cold and too hot).

If you order too much food, you'll be able to sell it. most the dried and freeze dried foods have a long shelf life though. Definitely get that hcp mineral supplement, my exotics are all over that stuff.

[kitkathermiesworld]

I also agree with you in a way.. about them having alot of molt attacks and not being able to keep track of watching them underground. And Yeah molting with alot of crabs maybe worse than overnight shipping with good weather and conditions. I though will be buying shells about 800 of them. My tank will be 1,111 gallons w/ a second level prbly ninety inches long . + (8) 10 gallon tank. + 1 29 gallon tank. And If i had to I would buy a couple totes for iso's... I have the room.. Everything for trying to get the hermit crabs and setting up good conditions I already estimated around $7,000. I am considering getting all small one's so they can have more room to their self. I however cant order less than 500. But Im not really sure how many I would have after the first week. Because I know how vulnerable crabs are and I went threw my losses with a couple crabs out the bunch in my 2 years of crabbing. But I was doing this mainly because I thought it would be a cool business to help the animals I adore before they get ready to go to their new loving home. + I wanted 4 ruggies and I refuse to order from a store with bad customer service, no pictures of crabs or habitat, and taking people's money before they are actually available. All I wanted was the best.. decisions... decisions..
Does anyone have a good water amount for the main tank? .. I was thinking of using 2 (110qt) totes with river rocks, and filters... Im really torn though..