Live plants and substrate

Penguin5000 · Post by **Penguin5000** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:57 pm

*hoping I am in the right section to post this*

I am getting a new tank for my crabs, unsure of the gallon size but its roughly WxDxH 36 in. x 18 in. x 24 in.
Because of it's large size,it will be difficult for deep cleans often and I was thinking about making it a little bit more self sustaining and prettier to look it. One of my ideas was to use live plants, as I did to make a dart frog vivarium. Are live plants alright though? Prolly depends on the type of plants, but would my hermits eat it? That also brings up the substrate, whats the best mixture if I am going to use live plants? (in the possibility live plants even ARE ok) Ideas for live plants?
If live plants become a lesser possibility, any ideas to make the tank more fascinating, maybe different levels?
One more thing, The tank is coming with a removable background, a foam one, is that safe for the crabs? It looks neat but the safety of my crabs is much more important

Thanks in advance!

moonbeam · Post by **moonbeam** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:07 pm

Hi welcome to HCA

I don't have any live plants in my tank but I think it depends on what kind. It's like food, some things are great, others are dangerous. Hopefully someone can chime in on what safe plants you can use.

Here's a thread about fertilizer. Not a care sheet, just opinions but I figured it'd give you a starting point. If you search this site for live plants in sure you'll find a ton more. viewtopic.php?t=101581#p931645

About the deep cleans, it's actually good to go a while I between those unless you have an emergency or an unavoidable situation where you gotta do it. I've read that 6mon-1year is about how often you should do a deep clean. Some crabbers don't ever do them unless it's warranted

Doing deep cleans too often can interrupt molting processes, and can cause your crabs to put off molting (if they do this for too long it can kill them).

Second levels are fantastic in crabitats! Crabs love to climb and there are a TON of ways to do them. Again, if you just search this site for second levels you will come up with a ton of threads full of ideas.

Is the background like a homemade background? Like made out of great stuff (insulation type material)? Is it covered anything. I think it depends on if it was made with crab safe materials. Also if you plan to use a UTH, does the background cover the entire back of the tank? If so it may interfere with the UTH. Hope this helps, I know I didn't really give you a definitive answer lol.

Again welcome to HCA and let us know if there's any thing else we can help you with

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Teedeums · Post by **Teedeums** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:09 pm

There are nameless live plants in the reptile section in some petcos (that are crab safe). They have "desert" ones and "tropical" ones (get the tropical). They are $2, and my crabs love that plant. They are digging through the leaves, eating it, and Tiny just sits there and basks next to it. The plant is doing well in the crabitat conditions, and I am looking all over to try and find its name, because the crabs love it so much and I want to learn more about it. You could try and find those

(they actually sell about three different types of tropical, so you could have some diversity of plants).

P.S. Welcome to the HCA!

aldebaron0626 · Post by **aldebaron0626** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:44 am

FYI I tried a Bromeliad but it didn't live very long in the crab tank. I'm not saying don't get plants, just don't do a Bromeliad. I'm planning on replacing it with another live plant. I have to find these plants that Teedeums mentioned. I haven't seen any at my Petco, but then again, I wasn't specifically looking for them.

Penguin5000 · Post by **Penguin5000** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:29 am

moonbeam wrote:Hi welcome to HCA

I don't have any live plants in my tank but I think it depends on what kind. It's like food, some things are great, others are dangerous. Hopefully someone can chime in on what safe plants you can use.

Here's a thread about fertilizer. Not a care sheet, just opinions but I figured it'd give you a starting point. If you search this site for live plants in sure you'll find a ton more. viewtopic.php?t=101581#p931645

About the deep cleans, it's actually good to go a while I between those unless you have an emergency or an unavoidable situation where you gotta do it. I've read that 6mon-1year is about how often you should do a deep clean. Some crabbers don't ever do them unless it's warranted Doing deep cleans too often can interrupt molting processes, and can cause your crabs to put off molting (if they do this for too long it can kill them).

Second levels are fantastic in crabitats! Crabs love to climb and there are a TON of ways to do them. Again, if you just search this site for second levels you will come up with a ton of threads full of ideas.

Is the background like a homemade background? Like made out of great stuff (insulation type material)? Is it covered anything. I think it depends on if it was made with crab safe materials. Also if you plan to use a UTH, does the background cover the entire back of the tank? If so it may interfere with the UTH. Hope this helps, I know I didn't really give you a definitive answer lol.

Again welcome to HCA and let us know if there's any thing else we can help you with

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The background is styrofoam, I am guessing it would be unsafe. My thought, especially if I get live plants in the tank, is to use window/door or aquarium silicone over the whole thing and then peat moss pressed in. I did this in my frog vivarium, it makes a neat background that they could climb and I could put some vines on (if I can find crab safe ones). Thanks!

Penguin5000 · Post by **Penguin5000** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:34 am

aldebaron0626 wrote:FYI I tried a Bromeliad but it didn't live very long in the crab tank. I'm not saying don't get plants, just don't do a Bromeliad. I'm planning on replacing it with another live plant. I have to find these plants that Teedeums mentioned. I haven't seen any at my Petco, but then again, I wasn't specifically looking for them.

Hmmm, the first thought I had was a Bromeliad. What substrate mix did you use when you had it? Maybe they don't like sand in the soil? Hah who knows. I was thinking about having them in net pots buried in the Hermits substrate so maybe it could have a bit of a different soil type. Thanks for the info, I'll keep an eye out for other plants and I agree with Teedeums. Petco, AWAY!

aldebaron0626 · Post by **aldebaron0626** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:00 pm

I had mine in straight eco earth in its pot. Mom just put hers in without changing soil. Hers died about a week before mine did. I'm not sure if it maybe was too damp. I watered mine maybe once a week when I thought the earth was getting a bit dry feeling. Mom just watered hers through the regular mistings she gave the tank.

Post by **aussieJJDude** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:47 pm

There are multiple plants safe enough for crabitats! Off the top of my head, pothos make the perfect occupant - as it seems to thrive in anything!

I normally go by the rule, if it is reptile safe, most likely it will be crab safe too.
If you use the search bar (top right hand corner of a page) before posting a new topic, there numerous topics about plants & their care.

Ryry · Post by **Ryry** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:01 pm

Moonbeam posted a link above that has pictures of my plant. It's a draceana. It's been in my tank for over a month and my crabs beat up on it. You kinda have to expect that when your putting any plant in. They don't try to eat it (that I know of) but they climb on it an pinch and pull at it. It's help up super well. A few small brown spots (very small) and the bottom leaves are a bit trampled, but the plant really looks fine.

When I was putting it in my tank I put it on the side that has more EE, I figured the plant would like that better than the sand. I took two pots the same size and washed them in super hot water. Then I took the plant wand wiggled off some of the existing soil- but not all of it. I took an ee/sand mix and potted it in that. I placed the other pot over the first and planted it so the top of the pot was about an inch under the sub level. I then filled in the sub over the top.

The reason I double potted the plant was in case I need to ever pull it out the second pot will stay in and "save its spot" without collapsing any tunnels. I felt pretty smart with that idea. I did the same thing with my pools to make it easier to pull them out.

Some one told me that they have two of the same plants and cycle them out so that one is always healing.
I've "watered" it only once and I just dribbled a little bit of water around the base. I mist it pretty good every day or so.

I feel like live plants really are great in a tat. Just really think about placement before putting them in!

Post by **wodesorel** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:59 pm

The biggest thing to remember is that crabs pick at everything, and they love to pinch at things that are springy, especially if they're bored. Mine have destroyed the inner silicone bead on my 135 gallon, and have chewed down the wood on the inner corners, and have torn apart plastic plants and live plants. Someone else made a giant crabitat with a ton of live plants ordered from a online frog supplier so they would be pesticide and fertilizer free, and in three months the crabs had destroyed every last one. I'm sure they would love a frog tank, but do not expect it to be permanent or undamaged! So long as that doesn't bother you, there's no reason not to use live plants or a homemade background.

(Incidentally, it'll be either a 40, 50 or 65 gallon with that foot print. If it is 24 inches high, it's a 65 gallon.)

Sweet Pea · Post by **Sweet Pea** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:08 am

I keep a bunch of 4" potted plants that I rotate through my tank. The crabs beat them up to varying degrees. It can take a plant anywhere from a few weeks to a few months to recover from all the attention the crabs give them. I also do the pot within a pot method so that I don't disturb the substrate. I stick with a 4" pot because I know my crabs are big enough that I don't risk them digging down into the pot and then being taken out with the plant when I rotate it out.

Pothos works very well. They don't eat it. Spider plants get beat up but bounce back pretty well once they are taken out to recover. I had a small dragone palm (Dracena marginata) that they literally chopped down. I took it out of the tank, stuck the trunk back in the soil, and it re rooted. Ferns don't do very well for me in the crabitat because they are eaten quickly. They completely mauled the Norfolk Island pine. It looked like a Charlie Brown Christmas tree when it was done. When I get a new plant I let it sit a minimum of three months outside of the tank before putting it in. I also sprout little pots of lettuce, peas, barley, that kind of thing. I've tried planting right in Ecco earth/sand substrate mix and the plants don't do well for me.

I don't think you will be able to get the exact same look that you do with a frog tank. I do like the richness that live plants add to the tank.

Crabinski · Post by **Crabinski** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:50 pm

Check out the two Crab Care links on Safe and Unsafe Foods as there are quite a few plants listed on both. For example, UNSAFE includes Golden Pothos, Ivy, Diffenbachia, Philodendron and Schefflera, all very common house plants. I was surprised by some of these and glad I checked before shopping for small terrarium plants.

Post by **wodesorel** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:29 pm

Please keep in mind that it's an Unsafe AND Unpopular list. That doesn't necessarily mean the plant is toxic, it just means that the crabs generally won't eat them. There has never been a case of a crab dying from something it ate, but we have a good idea of what they aren't interested in.

Crabinski · Post by **Crabinski** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:45 pm

wodesorel wrote:Please keep in mind that it's an Unsafe AND Unpopular list. That doesn't necessarily mean the plant is toxic, it just means that the crabs generally won't eat them. There has never been a case of a crab dying from something it ate, but we have a good idea of what they aren't interested in.

Ah, very good distinction! So it's a "better safe than sorry" list rather than a "don't ever give it to your crabs" list? I follow the "better safe than sorry" route with things for my mice and am inclined to do so for the hermits, too.

Post by **wodesorel** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:19 pm

Crabinski wrote:So it's a "better safe than sorry" list rather than a "don't ever give it to your crabs" list? I follow the "better safe than sorry" route with things for my mice and am inclined to do so for the hermits, too.

Yep! We've been removing things slowly over the years as well, as people have proven that the items are harmless. (Like cherry wood, lavender, and pine.) It's an old list where items were included for being poisonous to furry pets, or because things are used as insect repellents. Much of it wasn't tested but was assumed to be bad. The things that were tested were included because of the crabs not eating them, like the lemons.

We should probably remove pothos and philodendron and draecena (if the last is on there), as many crabbers are using it and it's not causing harm, but the crabs also aren't eating it so... It's in between. I've used ivy in the past and they destroyed it overnight with no ill effects. I wasn't going to waste more money on more plants just to do a food test for it.

HCA: Hermit Crab Association