Upgrading from 10g to 60g need advice - We are in love

[uphoto]

My 3 girls and I have had 3 PP's (Carmen,Aurora & Angel) since Christmas and because I love to research things and wanted to make this a long term relationship between my girls and the crabs, I spent 2 weeks glued to forums and sites that give advice. This forum by far has had the best info.

I get the technical and research duties, they do the care, maintenance and love. Well I do some of that myself as well.

Carmen,Aurora & Angel seem to have all gone down to molt recently (have been down for several days now) - they are all usually very social, and I thought now would be the best time to get the new tat ready. We currently have a standard issue 10 gallon kit with a few additions like our own home made coconut hut + cork climbing wall, but this just isn't enough for us. We want more crabs and I want something really nice looking. We settled on the 36x18x24 Exo Terra Tank - the daughter who will do most maintenance 9yr old will have much better access this way (couldn't find a lot of people with these on the forum - there should be a thread for exo terra users maybe We have been looking at hundreds of tanks and tat designs and have come up with what we want. 2 Major parts come from things we found here.

1/3 of the bottom level on the left will be the water area with, saltwater and freshwater bubble tubs about 2-3 inches, just deep enough for any of ours to submerge all sitting on some pebbles, separated by a piece of plexi, that they will have to crawl over to get into the water area (by way of nets and vines)
The top level will be very similar to what sugarselections did with her top level... cork tree trunks... we flipped out when we saw that.

Substrate will be about 8-10 inches high (deciding if we will get a jumbo or not)

Here are the questions we need advice on:

1. With this tank, it comes with a "background" which I believe is about 1-2" thick. It seems nice and we may want to keep it. It covers top to bottom, where do we put the 11x17 Ultratherm? Can I still put it on the back? I would love to not have to see it if possible. I had planned on vertically on the side with no water feature, approx. half at substrate other half above. How will the background effect the heat or will it maybe help?

2. We want an amazing & super unique looking tank... we want to put a Beta Fish non clean tank with an Asian theme to it as a centerpiece. I have done some light research on betas and spoken to several local pet store peeps and they don't seem to think it will be a problem as long as the crabs can't get to the fish. The non clean tank wont have anything electrical or filter wise that would interfere or visa versa. We would definitely make it safe for both crabs and fish not to be able to reach each other. And the no clean tank would be clearly easier to maintain. The research I have done on betas suggest that they like a very similar temp as the crabs and I'm thinking the fish tank will even help with humidity.

any and all thoughts or ideas are welcome, the tank arrives tomorrow and various fun things throughout the week. We will play with sizes and design as they come in and start the real build in the next few weeks.

BTW we are planning on adding about 4-6 more crabs once its done. Couple of E's and a few more PPs, I want to make sure we are super consistent before we add any strawberries, but my girls really want a few of those too.


Our Ongoing Design: (updated with larger fish tank)


Current Tank - Replaced Bridge with Coconut Hut
http://youtu.be/qlLj0LaxWXw

[CallaLily]

Welcome to the HCA! I'll do my best to answer your questions.

1) The backgrounds that come with exo terra tanks are styrofoam. The crabs will rip it up pretty good. I don't know how much of a worry that will cause if they consume it, but when I noticed with mine I found small bits of styrofoam throughout the substrate and because of that, removed the background and replaced all the substrate. Speaking of substrate, you'll need to place a piece of plexi or glass in the front to allow deep substrate in exo terras. You may have noticed it in Sugarselections' tank. Back to the background, it would also block a lot of the heat from your heat mat.

2) No aquarium is completely self cleaning. Even cycled aquariums require water changes to rid the tank of nitrates. Looking at the video, that method appears to remove some visible debris but I doubt it would provide enough of a change to keep the water truly clean and safe for the fish. Look into cycling aquariums for more answers. It also looks like it only holds around half a gallon of water which imo is too small a tank for a betta.

Another piece of advice is to remember that molting space is extremely important when figuring out how many crabs you can fit into a tank. Look at the length x width of the land area you are providing to judge how many crabs can fit.

Good luck! I look forward to pics of your new set up when it's complete.

[uphoto]

Great thanks so much for heads up on the Styrofoam. We will probably go with partial scenic and partial cork bark then.

The no clean, is nice because it's just less maintenance. We do plan on following the guidelines for whatever we choose... going into it I know the name no clean is a bit misleading and will require some level of care, which we will defiantly be willing to do. Just haven't seen anyone out there doing anything like this and wondering why.


If I used a larger fish tank for the beta, like a 2-3 gallon do you think that would work ok in a crab tank? I am fine with a larger tank, we just would love the combination


The current plan does call for us to us a piece of plexi to run in the front about 10-12" high depending on substrate depth, maybe even higher.

[wodesorel]

Crabs aren't entirely smart, so they're going to try to dig into and possibly molt in the pebbles, which is dangerous. Stones have their place in a crab tank for sure, but giving up that much area for something that doesn't bring any benefit may not be the best use of the space. If you're worried about the crabs dirtying up the bowls or spilling them, have you considered putting them on a platform above the level of the substrate? I went from hating my crabitat to enjoying it again, and all I did was move the water bowls up to the top of the tank! No more bending to change them, and no more spills and substrate. It sounds silly, but it's the little things that can get really annoying over the years!

I would also urge you to research a bit more into bettas, if you and your girls have your heart set on one. Minimum recommendations for is 5 gallons per fish, with filtered water and careful maintenance of water chemistry. The pet stores will make them out to be cheap and easy and will sell them in tiny little tanks, and they are treated exactly like hermit crabs in that respect. There are also a lot of bad products out there that reinforce the idea that a living animal is happy in a space where it can't move around. Bettas are very active fish that will swim and be silly and can move around just fine in huge spaces, so long as there isn't fast moving water or companions that can hurt them.

[uphoto]

OK so this looks like the answer is it can be done... just with larger fish tank. I am totally fine with that and will research a nice smaller fish tank. The Fluval line still has a great contemporary design and has some nice reviews. I do promise to do homework and make sure we do it right. We are looking for long term pets here so whatever it takes

As for the water portion, would it work to make a platform (still at same level) that we silicone a layer of stones to so it still looks like they are go all the way down to the bottom, that way they couldn't get under the rock?

The ultratherm, I'm guessing it would be best placed on the side that does not have the water features?

[aussieJJDude]

Personally, i would really think about setting up the betta tank outside of the crabitat. Even though it will look nice inside the tank, it just a waste of valuable space which hermies need. You're better off setting up the betta tank near the crabitat, so they it still has the theme you're looking for. Plus, do access your betta tank - which you will be doing often - it will require you to get inside the tank. IDK about you, but when I am working on my fish tank, I appreciate every inch of space!
That platform thing does sound cool, plus the crabs can still have access underneath for some more moulting space. I really think thats a good idea to keep your crabs healthy and for some "eye candy".
For heat mats, i really suggest going for a size that covers the entire back wall above the substrate level; by doing so, will keep the heat in. A good think about positioning the water bowls close to the heat source is that it will help boost your humidity levels too!

[uphoto]

Yeah, I have been thinking about that all day, but would want a really cool centerpiece for the tank, are there any really good sources outside of what I am finding locally at pet stores? Something Bonsai tree'ish or bamboo leaves

[wodesorel]

There is a big bonsai tree decoration for reptiles. I've seen many crabbers use it, and it's really nice looking. I think it's from Petsmart?

You could also create your own tree house using drfitwood. Mopani (sold for reptiles and fish) comes in huge chunks and some pieces are gorgeously gnarly with multiple colors.

[uphoto]

on the hunt now... for both

Ultratherm Question: my tank will be 36x18x24... have the 11x17 on order, should I send that back and get the 11x35?

[megmaholm]

Personally, I would get a bigger one, or just order a second one to cover the rest. The bigger your UTH the better it'll heat your tank.

[uphoto]

what are some ideas for the back glass? I really don't want to see the ultratherm, are most people doing a scenic thing? What are the options now that I am certainly not using the styrofoam that comes with the tank?

[megmaholm]

Personally I don't mind seeing the Ultratherm much since it's just black. Unfortunately, a lot of cool backgrounds that are available to buy/make will also end up blocking the heat. I have a lot of decor against the back wall of my tank, some fake vines that attach by suction cup, etc.

[singlemomwithcrab]

Micheals has beautiful long strands of bamboo leave fake plants. It would fit with your theme. Don't make it too dense or it will act as a heat barrier.

http://www.michaels.com/ashland-fern-co ... o&start=29

[uphoto]

This is amazing! so if I was going to hang these bamboo leaves on the back glass, what is the best way to do this?

[Crabinski]

what are some ideas for the back glass? I really don't want to see the ultratherm, are most people doing a scenic thing? What are the options now that I am certainly not using the styrofoam that comes with the tank?

Fish net is always a good option. Michael's and Hobby Lobby sell "real used fish net" for $6. It's about 3'x5' if you stretch it out but can be cut up for draping. If you opt for it, be sure to soak it in very hot water a few times to get the strong ocean odor and tiny algae, etc., out.

Re hanging the bamboo, you could use zip-ties if you have a screen lid or suction cups or install 3/4" L-shaped acrylic strips at the top of the tank (both ends and back side). All you need to do with the acrylic strips is to drill small holes on one side of the the L and then use aquarium silicone to affix the "solid" side to the tank. Once attached, it's easy to use zip-ties to hang nets, plants, etc. Remember, you'd have to add those strips before the crabs go in as the silicone needs at least 48 hours to cure and, once in, they're there for the duration. The acrylic strips can be found at Home Depot in the Blinds department for $3-$5 dollars (4' and 8' lengths) and are called "wallpaper guards."