Problem fixed please delete or close.

[Jiji]

Up until today I had no problems in my tank in several months and in two days flat it's seemed to go south. So I want to go back to January when this was my crab group in their size order.
Paul (A strawberry), Clyde (ruggie), Boss (red-blue), Bonnie (Ruggie),Stell (red-blue), Al (red-blue), Casper (ruggie)

So here is a small back history, Paul was the biggest in my tank between a medium to large crab (I've had one that was like twice as big, so this is base on my experience) he was a gentle guy though. He kept Boss in check since the day I got him just by antenna waving and I had no problem when I added my pair of medium ruggies. Unfortunately Paul passed away in February of this year after I had had him for a year, it looked like he was going to molt but didn't make it. This is when Boss started picking on Bonnie.

At first Boss just seemed to bully her, I never saw him attack her which now that I read some other things he seemed to just have bullied her out of her shell. I found her naked in the tank up on the log with him holding her shell in his front legs. I shoved Boss away and Bonnie darted down the log and into a new shell, thinking maybe she was just changing and he scared her I left them be but later the same night I caught him bullying her again and took him out and stuffed (in the nicest way as I was upset) him into his own personal 5.5 gallon we had with sand from before having fiddler crabs. He has been in his isolation tank since then, it didn't occur to me to try to put him back as Bonnie was still in my main tank.

~Fast Forward to two days ago~

I took out Bonnie and Casper, found Al behind the coconut mat, then gently went looking threw the sand for Clyde and Stell because I wanted to sift the sand to get out the poop. As Bonnie, Casper, and Al scurried around their carry cage with a hide log I found Clyde. He seemed well dead, but in a pose that he could just be stiff and ready to molt. I felt bad diging him up but I swore when I dug him up I smelled something faintly...but since I've had crabs hide and molt in the sand then pop up a few weeks later so I always try to leave them be the longest I can, Stell was buried near him but moving. Rinsed the sand off of her and put her with the other 3 happy ones. Long story short I rinse the dishes refilled the salt soak dish, water, food, rearranged the 3 hides and climbing log then put the 5 guys (4 technically) back in the tank and everyone (cept Clyde as I put him under a log) crawled to their own little spots. Refilled the water the following morning and notice Stell digging a hole near the water dish where the sand was damp. I shrugged because that was normal. Then it happened when I got home from the craft store.

I walked in and dropped the few things I got on my bed and picked up the phone to call the neighbor to make sure she was home as I was cat sitting for her when I looked in my tank I started almost shaking from the shock while still talking to her. Bonnie was sitting on Stell eating her, as Al was poking at the shell Stell had been. I just barely managed to hang up the phone and call for my dad before I fell to the ground crying. I have owned at least 1 hermit crab at any given point since 2004 and I have never had 1 of them eat the other. Right before I collapsed crying (I've felt stressed for several days and these are my buds I've had over a year so it kinda trigger a mini breakdown) I pulled Bonnie off Stell, and Stell's dead body shifted since I removed Bonnie, but the shock made me think Stell twitched and was still alive. Luckily when my dad got in there and picked up Stell he said there was no way she could have been, while he was there he poked Clyde (who I thought was dead yesterday but wanted to check) who was in fact dead. I lost 2 crabs in under two days and the one I felt was murdered. I set Bonnie in the tank for a second and she rushed at Al so fast pounced on him he half flipped over when she did, I snatched her back out and put her in their little cleaning cage falling back to the floor to cry more.

I gave both Al and Casper baths, as Casper was innocent to any crime in this matter, he had been behind the coconut mat sleeping. Let them antenna wave just because I was worried about putting them back in together. I know Al was just looking at the shell but it felt like he had a hand in the demise of Stell, even though the shell would have been way too big as his own is big on him anyway.

What I'm wondering if since Clyde was the biggest crab in the tank and the ruggie I got with Bonnie if his death could have upset her? At the moment Bonnie is in a wire crabitat carry cage within in actual tank but can't get out. I don't have any other tanks to put her in as Boss is in the spare. After seeing her eating my other crab I don't know if I should keep her, as the image is kinda gruesome to me. I already asked a few friends if they may want her...

I know this is a long passage but the only other thing that has changed is I recently got a reptile light with a normal incandescent bulb from the pet store, I turn it down to almost off at night and on higher during the day, it could have gotten to hot maybe? But she attacked a crab smaller then her so the thinner shell thing I read about wouldn't apply...I'm not sure what to do, after her last molt she became this pretty peach color with the bright orange antenna.

I guess my main question is this, since Boss bullied her but was okay with the others if I reintroduce them after his isolation do you think they would be fine and I could put her in his 5.5gal? Or should I look for a new home for her as a solo crab.

-Jiji

[soilentgringa]

Hi!

Wow it looks like there's a lot going on with your crabs right now! I am so sorry for your losses.

Can you please fill this out so we can help you address any areas of concern other than the obvious death of your crabs?

http://hermitcrabassociation.com/phpBB/ ... 27&t=46102

How large is the tank that you have the exotics in? What are "red-blue" crabs? Are they Purple Pinchers or are they Blueberries?

Thanks for taking the time to fill this out, my initial thoughts are that they don't have enough space for digging/molting and the molting smell may be causing cannibalism, which is also true if they aren't being fed enough protein sources. Do all of your crabs have species buddies?

Thanks for filling out the emergency template. Someone will respond as soon as they can (if I am unable to).

[Jiji]

It was a lot in just two days, since there wasn't a problem before with her being aggressive it was a great shock. I've have most all of these guys molt several times with no problems I have no clue what happened (or if Stell was even going to molt)

Red-blue would be the purple pinchers, I grew up with people calling them red-blue, they are the ones you see most commonly in pet stores.

I feed them the variety mix from Flukers as over the years I found they prefer it and always nibble some of it when I put it in unlike those gross pellet foods.

My tank is only a 10gallon...fortunately. My three smaller crabs could all individually fit on a half dollar coin with room for their shells and legs pretty comfortably if you were imaging size, then Boss & Bonnie are in the average size turban shells they seem to prefer and an African land snail shell. None of them are huge but when I was looking at the guide earlier, even with the logs to climb up to the top (and across the lid as boss like to do he loves climbing) it probably was a bit cramped yet everyone had their own spot. They were activate at night and unless they buried I would always see them crawling about at one point during the day.

I now have 2 [s]red-blues[/s] purple pinchers and two ruggies as 1 purple pincher was killed and 1 ruggie died (Though Boss is in his solo tank unless I re-add him and Bonnie is the one I'm having troubles with) right now in my ten gallon the 1 purple pincher 1 ruggie that are the same size are hanging out together. When I had the strawberry he was the only one because the pet store just happened to get him in and the other two they had sold before I noticed him.

[Jiji]

1. What kind of substrate is used in your tank and how deep is it?
- Sand between 2-3inches, if a crab buried itself you could not tell where they would be completely covered.

2. Do you have gauges in the tank to measure temperature and humidity? If so, where are they located and what temperature and humidity do they usually read?
- Not currently. I had a thermometer but it came off I really want to get a new one when we are at the store.

3. Is a heat source used in the tank? If so, what?
- I use an incandescent bulb to give off heat into the tank, recently I had to change fixture though...which is why I want a thermometer the previous one kept is warm but not desert hot.

4. What types of water are available (fresh or salt) and how is the water treated (what brands of dechlorinator or salt mix and what ratio is used to mix it)?
- I used the distilled water my dad also uses for the bromeliads for them, never tap. I bought sea salt from the pet store and followed the directions mixing it into a gallon. There are two small fresh water dishes in different locations and one bigger salt soak dish.

5. What kinds of food do you feed and how often is it replaced?
- This Flukers one with some fresh fruits every now and then or veggies but they don't seem to care for the fresh stuff much. I replace it every day to every other day.

6. How long have you had the crab and what species is it, if known?
Boss - 4 or 5 years - purple pincher
Bonnie - little under a year, fall 2014 - Ruggie
Al - little under a year, fall 2014 - Purple pincher
Stell - summer to fall of 2014 - Purple pincher *One that got eaten maybe killed*
Casper - summer to fall of 2014 - Ruggie

7. Has your crab molted, and how long ago did it happen?
Oh gosh all of them have molted at least 1 time sine I got them. Bonnie has molted at least 2 times maybe more.


8. What type of housing are the crabs kept in, what size is it and what kind of lid is on the housing?
Boss - in his own 5.5 after incident before but not reintroduced yet
The others were/are in a 10 gallon tank, screen lid the light/heat source is on.

9. How many crabs are in the tank and about how large are they?
In the ten gallon:
small: Casper, Al
between small and medium: Stell (deceased now)
medium-large: Bonnie + Clyde (before he passed this month)

Boss would be medium but is still isolated since Feb.

10. How many extra shells are usually kept in the tank, if any?
- There are normally at least 5 or 6 depending on how many of each size I have to rotate in, all of the small crabs have changed shells since I got them.

11. Have there been any fumes or chemicals near the crabitat recently?
- None that I can think of besides maybe when they were doing yard work and the window was open last month.

12. How often do you clean the tank and how?
- I clean the tank about every 2 weeks or so, depending on if I have seen anyone dig and how long they have been hidden, something with just clean the hal I know they aren't in. I was the dishes separately in really hot water and sift the had through a sieve to get the poop.

13. Are sponges used in the water dish? If so, how are they cleaned?
- Yes I always have a sponge, I clean them in super hot water to attempt to kill anything that could be harmful.

14. Has anything new been added to your crabitat recently?
- The newest thing would be their new lamp but that is outside the tank otherwise nothing has been that I haven't owned for a long time.

15. Is there any other information you would like to share that might be helpful (anything that is regularly part of your crab care, playtime, bathing, etc.)?
- Not sure I can answer questions.

16. Please describe the emergency situation in detail.
Bonnie has been a peaceful crab since I got her. In February my other crab Boss would bully her but not physically hurt her and stole her shell twice, I removed him and all was well. I cleaned the tank on the 16th and found the ruggie I got her with to be dead and my medium small crab Stell buried near him but alive and crawling. Stell was digging a hole near the water dish earlier. When I got home from the store Stell was out of her shell dead with Bonnie sitting on top of her eating her, the smaller crab Al was poking at Stells old shell. I took out bonnie briefly to try and fix up the tank, put her back in and she charged Al crawling onto of him which in the shock put him on his back. I grabbed her and put her in a wire change within the tank with her own separate water + food for the time being as I have no other tank to put her in and want to make sure she stays warm.

Sorry it's 2:20am if any of it is worded funny.

[soilentgringa]

Thanks for filling out the template. There are some areas of concern based on the fact that you have what are considered to be "exotic" crabs, which require much deeper substrate and more space.

In my opinion, you really need at least a 50 gallon tank. It is recommended for Straws and E's that the minimum tank size is 40 gallons with at least 12" of sub. Their substrate needs to be very deep because they dig and tunnel so much.

Gauges are imperative. Straws tend to be more delicate when it comes to humidity and temperature requirements and they should be in the mid 80's range at least in both temp and humidity.

As long as the water treatment you are using removes chlorine, ammonia, and heavy metals from the water you should be fine using that to treat tap water. It is alright for crabs and you can spend 3 dollars on a bottle of Seachem Prime that will last over a year as 2 drops will treat a gallon of water and won't hurt anything if you accidentally use too much. Marine grade salt water such as Instant Ocean is what is recommended for hermit crabs. Purple box with a fish on it. This is because it provides the essential minerals that they won't get in a tank. Linking the water treatment/salt safe list below:

http://hermitcrabassociation.com/phpBB/ ... 25&t=92553

Sponges don't really do anything for the crabs other than harbor bacteria so it's best to ditch them. Crabs need dishes or pools that they can completely submerge in. As long as they have a way out they will not drown, many of us have crabs that like to sit in the water for hours.

The pellets have a lot of additives that aren't good for the crabs, it's best to toss it and just make sure to provide plenty of good protein sources and calcium sources supplemented by veggies/fruit/grains/etc. Raw organic honey is a crab favorite and very nourishing, especially for sick crabs.

You should ideally have at least 3 extra shells for each crab in shapes that their species likes to wear. Some like D shaped openings and some like O shaped openings. Plenty of shells cuts down on the risk of shell fights.

After crabs molt they have a delicious smell and are often attacked by other crabs. If you see aggression towards a crab that has just come up after a molt, give it a quick dip in the freshwater dish to wash the smell away. If your substrate isn't deep enough, the other crabs can smell molters and will often cannibalize them.

Under tank heaters applied to the side of a tank is a great way to boost heat. I noticed that you said something about desert conditions, but hermit crabs come from the tropics and need a moist deep substrate that will hold up to them tunneling and making caves in order to molt and destress. They need high humidity due to their modified gills. Crabs can be sick and injured for a long time before succumbing to their injuries or illnesses.

I believe that the areas you need to address first are to find a larger tank or even a large plastic tote from WalMart if finances are tight. Craigslist is a great source for used tanks as well as Petco's dollar per gallon sale (when they have it). Make sure you have plenty of silica based sand mixed with coco fiber substrate, moistened enough (with dechlorinated water) to hold sandcastle shape, and have gauges and a heat source. You really want your humidity and temperature to be correct as well as provide them with proper water and food. They will need a place to hide and things to climb on but the most important is getting their conditions correct so you don't lose any more to aggression/cannibalism. You can find shells at Hobby Lobby/Michaels/JoAnn fabric in some cases, or on Ebay, at Hermit Crab Patch (website), Naples Seashells (website) and other places.

I know that it's a lot but Straws do not last very long in captivity compared to Purple Pinchers and are much more delicate when it comes to their conditions. I wouldn't suggest trying to get it a species buddy until your tank situation is addressed. Unless that was a typo, if you have all of those crabs in a 10 gallon tank, that is very likely one of the sources of the aggression issue; they are just too overcrowded.

Please understand that I am not trying to be rude to you or mean, it is our goal here at HCA to educate and inform and make recommendations and suggestions. You are not obligated to follow my advice by any means but please believe me when I say that I truly have your crabs best interests at heart. They can live for such a long time and deserve the best!

I know this can be overwhelming but all of us mods are here to help and give advice!

[soilentgringa]

Here is a link to the Straw care sheet:

http://hermitcrabassociation.com/phpBB/ ... 51&t=92450

Here is a link to the Ruggie care sheet:

http://hermitcrabassociation.com/phpBB/ ... 51&t=92451

Info on tank size/capacity:

http://hermitcrabassociation.com/phpBB/ ... 25&t=92541

[soilentgringa]

Okay after reading the initial post on this thread again, I realize that your Straw didn't make it. However it probably is best that you do get at least a 40 gallon tank for now and definitely deepen the sub. If someone has a lot of experience with ruggies they can chime in, as the care guide doesn't seem to be as in depth on them at the moment. I do feel that they really need more space and deeper substrate. I get my Eco Earth coco fiber bricks at Petsmart, they are like 3 bricks for less than 10 bucks. Playsand from Home Depot for less than 5 bucks a bag. I want to say I mixed like 4-5 bricks of EE to 250 lbs of sand but I can't remember for sure. I know it's a good mix and holds shape well when molded and is about 13" deep in my 55 gallon tank.

[Jiji]

Thanks for responding, there are a few things I wanted to clarify or ask more questions about.

1. I never use water with chlorine, I use the distilled water you buy in gallon jugs that my father buys for the bromeliads. I can look for the salt, I had gotten a thing of hermit crab sea salt then when I did the numbers equaled one gallon and mixed it into a brand new gallon of distilled water which I use in the deep soak dish.

2. You seemed to have notice later, I no longer have the strawberry. I had him over a year and he had always seemed pretty active, friendly and content.

3. Really? No sponges? My crabs always love to sit on them while they are drinking, you can see their little mark, I typically got these sponges from the Florida Marine Research place.

4. I never feed them pellets, my comment on the pellets was how gross they are, I give them the variety diet I linked above. Never thought of honey, I have 2 jars of organic raw in the cabinet I will see if they like it.

5. Up until the incident yesterday, which I'm not sure is Stell was going to molt or was pulled out of her shell, I have never had a problem. The crabbies dig down molt and pop up a week or 2 later I just keep the area moist if I know ones there.

6. I have an incandescent bulb but in a reptile light fixture, because my old one broke with I feel does get much hotter then the previous one. Our apartment itself is normally always between 72-76degrees.

7. Planing on trying to look around the store later for the cocofiber, gauges, and look at tanks. I have a good collection of shells for the guys (seen boss try two shells then go back to his old one) but I definitely will go to JoAnns since it is right next to petsmart. I always look at Michaels but they haven't had much for several years :c

Sorry if the numbers sound funny I wanted to group the responces together I do have few questions though.

My hermit crab count is Casper (small rug), Al (Small pp), Boss (medium PP), Bonnie (Medium rug). I may see if Boss gets along with the little guys as Bonnie was the one he picked on. If I put him in the ten gal with the two little guys (after antenna waving and quick baths to make sure not risking it) would Bonnie be okay in her own 5.5 gal or the 10 gal If I get a bigger tank?

Having only 2 smalls and a medium crab in the tank how big of a tank would I need and if you used a lot of climbing branches could a reptile one that has more height work better then my current ten?
I don't have a lot of free desk space in my room the hermit tank has it's own and could only at the most become a more square shape unless I rearrange my main desk but that is where the Betta 2.5 gal is along with the lamp.

I am leaving back for college October and my hermits have to stay here with my dad, as I can only take the betta to the dorms. Which will be the case for about another 4 years so I won't be home most of the time anyway.

Also how to you typically clean the tank? I have been using a sift since I have no coco fiber currently.