Ecuadorians, Calico Crabs or Both?

[KittyCaller]

I just got two more new crabs, Click and Clack. (They weren't cheap, but I'm rather for the idea of making crabs more expensive anyhow, so that's cool) Anyways, I'm wondering if I didn't get a couple of calicos. I've only seen a few pics of them before, and I'm not really positive. If those of you who have had them before (Sandra and Aviate for instance, I think I remember you two posting about them before ) I have some questions. Like, do they have stitch marks and is there anything I can look for specifically to find out?

[moire_eel]

Hopefully Aviate will come by and give an update on how her Calicos are doing - I had been wondering recently how they fared. As I recall, she had problems with them being extremely agressive at first. I remember Calicos as being described as being "knuckle draggers" - their BPs seem to be rather long.sophistic_chick, Calicos are crabs that look like Ecuadorians, but seem to get much larger than Es are known to, and also seem to behave a bit differently. They're generally a dark burnt-orange color. They could be Es, though, but just an isolated population that has developed some different traits. It is not known where they are collected from.

[Guest]

There was a thread a little while back on HCA where someone had got some HUGE compressus that they were told had come from Haiti.After hashing it around back & forth for a while, we figured it was possible that larvae from the west coast had got through the Panama Canal and now there are compressus in the Caribbean. If they've been there for a while and resources and competition are different than their normal home, it might explain the calicos.But I'd love to see some pictures!

[Guest]

Daisiem, I am 99% certain yours is a compressus. I have small ones with that brilliant russet color on them. The markings, and eye shape are definitely compressus.Compressus can get as large as 38 grams without the shell. I have some nearly golfball sized.I think they're probably some elder compressus from some remote location that hadn't been harvested much before. That would explain their size. If their resources were limited there, they would be more aggressive. And compressus are bloody skittish animals at the best of times. Little crabs seem to adjust better to people than older, larger crabs do, and perhaps that explains their extreme madness around people -- jumping out of a shell in terror is pretty extreme. LMAOHere's one of my little ones. But the coloring is similar: Compressus can be nearly black when little, but the larger they get, the more rust/orange they go. My larger ones seem to stop at a light orange mahogany, and don't go darker.

[KittyCaller]

The largest Es I've ever had was maybe quarter size, so maybe I'm just not used to seeing a bigger one? Though the two I've got aren't all that much bigger than Joe (my largest E) is. I've been under the impression that Es are Compressus. Or do you suspect that these "calicos" are a sort of offshoot of the other, smaller, Es? Sorry, I'm just trying to understand. (And get better at species IDing) For what it's worth, my guys do look a lot like your guy there, Keri, though I can't see the stitch marks very well, if they're there.

[Guest]

Compressus are Es. I email scientists a lot about different aspects of crabs and they really don't like it when I use crabber language LOL. So I've got used to using the Latin.I'd like to see more pix of these calicos before I make my mind up completely, but I think they may be compressus. I had a cavipe that was almost black and really threw me off until I asked around about him.I mean, would you think this was a cavipe at first glance?

[Guest]

I was wondering if he was a pseudorugosus, because I have seen no pictures of any of them. But the person who helped me ID this one pointed out that pseudorugosus have larger eyes and stitch marks. By the eye and pincer shape alone you can tell this one is a cavipe. The store I got it at sometimes gets in what they call "candycane crabs." Which I'm thinking must be even more weird cavipes. Though you can't see it in this shot, this particular crab has horizontal orange stripes near his joints, and dark black-gray on the rest of him.

[Guest]

I have saked that quistion about this crab and I have been told that he is a calico and have been told that he is some thing else But I have yet to figer out what he is He is out alot unless he is molting

[Guest]

Moire-eel, yours is a ruggie for sure. Outside chance he's a pseudorug, but I've not seen them, and have been told they're almost indistinguishable from rugosus anyway. He is a handsome crabbie!Linda, despite the color differences, all your crab's other points of reference are compressus. When I asked Dr. Tudge at the Smithsonian about a few crabs in sinistral shells (coiled opposite the normal direction -- everyone thought they were a new species) he pointed out again to me that you CANNOT go by color in crab ID. At least you can't use it as a sole decider whether a crab is a new species or not. It's the overall crab, including pleiopods and abdomen shape, that determine the species. That cavipe of mine being the prime example. Every other cav I own has red eyestalks and antennae, and is either red or purple. Color is the one thing that is extremely variable by diet and environment.I sincerely doubt that the "calico" crabs Gardner was selling are a new species. I believe they are a subset of compressus from some place that hadn't been harvested before.

[KittyCaller]

I'm still wondering what's up with the sharp sort of angle-ish ridge on the inside of the BP. I mean, I've had some that seemed to have something like that after a weirdo molt, but both of these guys have it in the same place. I don't think that's sheer coincidence. And both of 'em have pretty clear stitch marks.

[Guest]

Environment can have an effect on some of the characteristics you'd think were set by the genetic template.For instance, those sinistral cavipes I mentioned earlier, their feeder claws are nearly as big as their BPs, since they are going into the shells in the opposite direction. Since the owner put in regular spiral shells, they've moved into those. So it seems that they can somehow change bodily characteristics depending on need, at least to some degree.I don't know what the stitch marks are for per se. But maybe they're more noticeable on the larger crabs because they are bigger. ...(Later) I thought I should go grab some of my larger compressus and inspect them.Their stitches are more evident than on the smaller crabs, so their noticeability may be tied directly to the crabs' size. They all have that ridge you're speaking of in the BP.Despite the color shift in the "calicos" they have the same double black stripe and orange eyestalks of compressus, and the black antennae. I'm more convinced than ever that the calicos are just big compressus.Gotta hand it to Bob Gardner though. That's a really brilliant marketing strategy. Make people think there's a whole new species to collect.

[KittyCaller]

Well, then I have a somewhat ignorant question. At what point do mutations caused by an environment stop being just mutations and instead contribute to a whole new species? I mean, Es and Ruggies both seem pretty similar to me but is there something other than leg shape that makes them two different species? (Please forgive me if this doesn't make much sense or isn't easily explained in a single thread. I'm just tryin' to understand. )

[Guest]

They almost resemble variabilis, don't they? I always thought the variabilis looked very much like chunky compressus.Catalina, I'd need a picture to tell you what you have. A crab really can't be ID'd without a photo.Different species would be unable to reproduce across species lines but of course we'd never be able to prove these are or are not compressus that way in captivity. But to me, compressus and rugosus are very different now that I know what to look for. The eye shape is different, the texture of the exoskeleton, marking patterns and dimpling are all too dissimilar to me. As well as the twisted leg shape of the ruggie and the triangular compressus claw.For all we know that odd ridge inside the BP is something to do with maturity and mating. I don't know just speculating here. I'm going to see if I can catch one of my tiny compressus here and see if I can make out the ridge or the beginnings of one on him...OK all of my compressus, even the smallest, have that strange inner ridge on the BP. And I got pinched for my trouble, so I hope you're happy! LMAOCompressus were noted in Biology of the Land Crabs (nearly 20 years ago) as having a maximum weight of 38 grams, without the gastropod shell. That's almost an ounce and a half. That's a very good sized crab. I think we're just used to seeing the smaller ones because they're more numerous.In this day and age, with the world so well travelled and LHCs being sold as pets for over 20 years and being more and more heavily harvested in the wild, I don't think that any more species exist except the ones we know about already. I could be wrong, I admit, but I'm positive as I can be without inspecting a calico first-hand in person, that calicos are large compressus.

[KittyCaller]

I had just wondered since this petstore had small to medium sized Es for sale, as well as some ruggies, and these calico guys (I got 2, but they had more). They don't lable the crabs by species, but some of the Es in the store weren't all that much smaller than Click and Clack, though they do seem more delicate in a way. And Julia, I agree that they look sort of like variabilis, which is what some people originally thought they might be. I think it was determined that they're definitely not that. I also heard the theory that they are some sort of E, just not the type usually found. I just wondered at what point the species becomes blurred and can be called a new species. Like out of the big cats left in the world, there are very very few, if any, pure blood lions or tigers left. They've all got tigon and liger in 'em.

[Guest]

All the differences between the calicos and compressus can be explained by adaptations to environmental factors, just in my opinion.But I've got an idea. If anyone has a calico die on them, preserve it in rubbing alcohol without its shell ASAP, then PM me and I'll tell where to send it to Dr. Tudge. He won't ID crabs unless he has a dead one in hand. He's probably the world's foremost coenobita expert, and he could put this whole issue to bed once and for all.