Crabs Dying Out of the Blue?

[Guest]

Okay, I want to know why they drop dead if you've had them for a year or more. I've had 2 for almost 2 years, but in the last 8 month I've had 4 just drop dead, and some of them I had for a year or more. I try to vary thier diet, use organic foods, etc.I was even worried that they were dying because they were too crowded in thier 10gal tank so I got a 20l for the 4 I had left. The most I ever had was 7 small to medium sized crabs.I thought I was doing a pretty good job with them. SO whats the deal?

[Nicole]

I'm so sorry! Do you have any warning signs, such as lethargy, sitting in the salt water dish, etc. or do you just find your crabs out of the shell?

[Guest]

One came out of his shell, actually it was the same one I mentioned in another post in the iso, months later. The only warning I had with 2 of them is that they were lethargic with droopy antenae. The last one, no warning just dead.At first I thought, it was the type of crab. They were all ruggies, but when I had a PP die on me so I started thinking that maybe it was something I was doing.

[Nicole]

Have they been exposed to chemicals of any kind recently?

[Guest]

No chemicals that I know of, unless the building is sending someone into the apartments and not telling us.As far as conditions before any of the deaths, there weren't any food changes or insecticide usage. In one case there wasn't any warning, it looked like he just sat down and died right there. Two of them were acting a little abnormal before they died, lethargic, just not like themselves and they would just drop dead. The last one was one of the original 3 I got. I found him sitting on top of his shell and he wasn't interested in getting back in it or any other shell, so although I tried to keep the kk I transferred him into moist he of course died. Three were ruggies and the shell-less one was a PP.Tank/crabbie info I got my first 3 crabbies (2PP and an Ecce)Christmas 2003, my boss had actually gotten them as her secret santa gift and they totally creeped her out. I thought they were kinda neat, so I adopted them. They were in a small kk with about an inch of sand, a small shell for food and one for water. They came with a very simple care sheet, some wardley's shrimp and dechlorinator.So one of the first things I did when I got home, aside from trying to explain my new pets to my husband, was go to the pet store for a book on crab care and to get a list of good websites to get info from. The crabbies got an immediate upgrade to a 5gal with EE, coconut hut a few shells and I found the Hermit Crab Associtions site which lead me to here. I upgraded to a 10gal when my largest crab started escaping on a regular basis and I just got my new 20L maybe 2 months ago. The temp of the tank is usually 70-75, and I keep the humidity between 75-85 originally by using a tropicaire humidifier and a natural sponge but now I have a waterfall (I keep a sponge in it so the small crabbies can drink from it). I have half of my tank with about 5 inches of EE/Bone-aid mix. The waterfall takes up the upper left corner and is surrounded by a mix of various sized rocks to keep the EE out of the waterfall. I use Dr. Wellfish for my saltwater mix and Reptisafe as my dechlor. I used to bathe my crabs with a salt/fresh water/stresscoat mix and calcium rocks but I haven't since I got the waterfall. I also use a couple of drops of stresscoat and reptisafe in my tropicaire water.I deep clean my tank every 6mos I use a capful of bleach and tons of water. Then I either air dry the tank or wipe it out with paper towels. I stir up the EE in my tank once a week when I pull everything out, deco, shells, crabs and rearange the whole thing. I also scoop out and replace 1/4th of the EE with new every couple of weeks, stirring it into the old. I deep clean my tank every six months.I've been feeding them fresh organic foods, along with a variety of commercial foods, sea weeds, local honey and a few different sources of calcium (sand dollar, coral, oyster shells). I change my food almost every day, depending on what it is. Salt water gets changed daily, the fresh water is being cycled through the waterfall.I think I covered everything, so why are they dropping dead on me.

[Nicole]

So you're not using the Tropicaire anymore? How long has it been since you bought new crabs? How often do you change the sponge in the waterfall? What kind of water do you use to make the EE? Have you tested the fresh water that goes through the waterfall?Sorry for all the questions. Your set-up sounds great; I'm just searching for a source of contamination or illness that may be causing this.

[Guest]

No that's okay, I want to know whats going on too!I still use the tropicaire, and I make it with dechlor water and a couple of drops of stresscoat. I have a long bar airstone in it because I though that a larger aeration surface would be better then the little round airstone it came with. I change the water in it every couple of months.I change my sponges on Saturday and Wednesday. When I take them out I soak them in salt water for a while then rinse them with plain water. Then I leave them on top of the tank to air dry. I have 5 or 6 natural sponges that I rotate with. I microwave them, um when I remember that I haven't done it in a while.When I make up the EE for the tank I heat water up in the kettle, then add 8 tbsp of salt and the dechlorinator. I make up the EE in a plastic container and whatever I have left I put in a plastic bag. When I use it later I check it for any mold or weird bits and if I really question it I bake it or toss it.I haven't tested the water in the waterfall. For the first couple of weeks that I had it before putting all the rock around it, I pulled it out of the tank, dumped out all the water and rinsed it out. Now with the rock around it I want to figure out a better way. I think I'll siphon the water out and replace it completely with freash. I have a mesh lid so there is some evaporation so I add freash water daily.When I get new crabs I always watch for a little bit to see how they act. I pick out ones that look healthy and moving around well. The Petco I get them from has a decent set up. They've gotten better over the last 2 years, they have both kids of water, usually Jurrasipet food and now some EE to dig into.Originally I only iso'd new crabs for 2 weeks but now I iso for a month, usually until they molt in the iso and come back up. I just bought 2 on Saturday and they're in the KK. The KK has EE/Bone-aid sand mix like the main tank but with more sand then EE and it's 2" or 3" deep. My first 3 crabbies Dec 2003 (Godzilla and Rodan are fine, Mothra just came out of his shell one day 2005). The next 2 were Feb 2004 (they're both gone; Batra and Gamora both I found just sitting there dead 2005). The next 2 were Sept 2004 (these ones are both gone; PPS and last night I found Megalon just sitting there dead). The last 2 were May 2005 (Gimantis might have died while molting and Gyros is fine).The crab log in the back of The All-Natural Hermit Crab Sourcebook helped me keep track of all this. When I started having all these weird deaths I started keeping track of everything.

[Nicole]

I don't use a waterfall or a humidifier, but I keep thinking something must be going on there, possibly with bacterial growth. Warm, moist air is such a breeding ground for bacteria, and also with the use of EE, which promotes high humidity, it might speed up the process. Again, these are just my thoughts. I have a 20L, too, but just adding saltwater to the sand on a regular basis is enough to keep the humidity in the desired range. Why do you use the Stress Coat in the Tropicaire?

[Ren1216]

You clearly know what you are doing and I hope I did not offend you when I asked you to tell us a little about your situation. Many times new members to this board just dont have the knowledge you do and that obviously makes for a whole different approach in trying to help them.However, I honestly dont know what the problem could be. Crab*grl has been having a similar problem, and she is also an experienced crabber. It has been quite upsetting for her lately. I supposed sometimes, there just is no answer. Its possible that there could be an illness of some sort that is spreading through your tank, but getting help for that is going to be hard. I wouldnt even know where to tell you to look for that info or help. The only thing that concerned me is.... the stress coat that you are putting into something, I forget what, is that water accessible for the crabbies to drink? I know you arent supposed to put that into their drinking water. How about something metal, anything metal in the tank? You mentioned a mesh lid... those dont hold the humidity in, do you have it sealed at all? You did say that you have guages and your humidity stays between 75-85%, I think... so that shouldnt be the problem. If you are not using a digital guage, its possible that the guage is wrong though. How about pine woods, have any of those in your tank?? Maybe check out this list of foods/items and make sure you arent providing them something thats toxic: www.epicurean-hermit.com

[Guest]

Thanks everybody for all your help and questions! No Ren I wasn't offended, you need to have all the information to see what could be the problem.On the stress coat in the tropicaire, that was an idea I had. I figured that it couldn't hurt anything since I bathed them in it. I noticed that after I started doing it when they molted it didn't seem to take as long. I did change the tubing from the tropicaire to the tank, it changed colors, looked smokey. The tube with holes in it had gotten dirt in it when Rodan pulled it off the wall and stuck it into the dirt. I thought maybe that had caused the color change.My apartment is really dry and gets really hot in the summer, I live in an old building (no air conditioning) in LA,CA. So I have the mesh lid for air circulation and to keep the tank from getting too hot. I keep the lid half covered with a plastic bag (I just have it laid on top of the lid), the part not over the waterfall. I adjust how much is covered depending on the readings of my guages. The guages are laid on top of the screen and the plastic is on top of them for more acurate readings.I checked the calibration of my analog humidity guages and they're okay. I've been thinking about getting a digital guage but I was a little concerned about wires in the tank, Godzilla chews on lots of plastic plants and pulls the leaf off, so I thought he may chew the wire.No pine woods, just choya, some drift wood and cork tubes. No metal items (except for the mesh on the lid and there aren't any holes in it), plastic plants, ceramic dishes, rigid foam background and waterfall.For food selection I've been keeping to the list from The All-Natural Hermit Crab Sourcebook and Julia Crabs site.I used to use IO but I switched to Doc Wellfish after reading some posts on it here. I found myself that the IO would start smelling strange after a week, it would also seperate and it evaporated quickly. The Doc Wellfish seems to be more stable and my crabbies prefer it.

[Nicole]

kimberlynns, I too switched to Doc Wellfish after reading some posts and also having the IO go bad after a relatively short period of time. I like Doc Wellfish a lot better and will stick with unless there becomes a reason not to use it.canneward, I bought a standing, wireless digital gauge, a TOM's, from Pet Discounters. It's been really great so far. There are "claw marks" in the plastic part of the gauge but no damage that I can see.I wish you could find out what the problem is! If you're certain your gauges are accurate, I would probably at least do a deep clean, remove the Stress Coat from the Tropicaire and see if that helps anything. Please keep us updated on your crabs.

[Guest]

I wouldn't think it was anything from the honey. The issue with feeding babies honey is that their immune systems aren't developed yet, so they're very susceptible to things like botulism. Hermit crabs are scavengers in the wild, so I wouldn't think even moderate levels of many of the bacteria found in foods would bother them.Based on your information, the only even halfway reasonable guess that I can make is that your newest crabs brought some sort of illness into your tank. Maybe it was something they'd become resistant to, and since your other crabs hadn't been exposed til then they weren't? Hmm, a far fetched idea, but do you need to heat your apartment in the winter? If so, what sort of heat do you have, central or space heaters, gas or electric? I'm wondering, if you've been heating your apartment recently if that might have put something into the air that's affecting your hermit crabs. Next far fetched idea, how long after your last deep clean did these deaths start? Is it possible that the little bit of bleach you used didn't get rinsed *quite* well enough and is now causing fumes in the tank? I remember a while back there was a crabber here who did a deep clean on her large tank and lost most of the tank to the bleach fumes, and she thought she'd rinsed it well enough. One more far fetched idea- have you recently changed where you buy the food you feed your hermies, or has the store started buying from a new producer? I'm reaching here, trying to think of some plausible reason your crabs would suddenly start dying after so long, especially with the great set up you have.

[Guest]

What gets me is that 2 of them; Rodan and Godzilla haven't seemed to be affected by anything, they're thriving. And the dead ones never look mauled or anything. The only other strange thing is that all the crabs hide from the dead one. Once I take it out, then they all come out. Since it seems to be that any new ones I add to the tank die maybe Godzilla and Rodan are the carriers of some weird crab disease.Heating, gas central, lit the pilot a couple of weeks ago but it's been unusually warm so it hasn't been on that much.Hmm, how long after last deep clean did the deaths start. That I'm not to sure about. I've only had the tank I'm using now for 2 months, so the latest death would have been 2 months after the last cleaning.I get their food from Petdiscounters or the Petco, the only new food I bought was HBH Hermit Crab Variety Bites, it looks like a bunch of powdered vegetables, fish meal, grains, ewwww EARTHWORMS and GARLIC. Okay now I'm glad I've only feed them this stuff once. I can't believe I missed the garlic in the ingrediants.Thanks everybody for all your ideas. I think what I'll do is clean the tank, the tropicaire, wash all the bowl and deco. I'll check out the digital guage you were talking about Nicole, it sounds fairly Godzilla proof and it can't hurt anything to have one.I'll keep everyone updated on how they are doing.PS the kitten faceplanted in the food dish is sooo CUTE Kittish

[Guest]

You're putting stress coat in your humidifier?? Why? Or is the stress coat in their drinking water? Some crabbers feel stress coat isn't good period and if used it should only be used in their bath water. If you take a bubble bath do you drink the soapy water? Of couse not. The same goes for the crabs, they shouldn't be drinking stress coat water, or breathing it in if it's mixed in with the mist that's coming from your humidifier. Other ideas, if you have some kind of air pump pump'in in air from outside the tank and blowing it into the tank you have to really watch any chemicals that are used in that room as the air pump will pump them right into your tank. I know people have lost fish this way, having pesticides sprayed near an air pump and having them get pumped into the water, etc.Many people use Doc Wellfish salt and that's a big debate right now. It isn't meant for salt water aquriums as it won't properly support marine fish, so that's a good enough reason for me not to offer it to my crabs. Right now I'm using Crystal Sea's salt mix as it's the closest synthetic salt blend to real salt water and has been shown to support the most delicate marine life, where even brands like Instant Ocean did not and can actually be toxic since Insant Ocean contains much higher levels of trace elements than real sea water.

[KittyCaller]

Have you been getting these crabs from the same place? I wonder if maybe they weren't exposed to something via transport. Maybe fumes or something like that, and in their stressed state, they just can't take it. If they came from the same source, then that might explain the strange deaths. As for the stress coat, it's probably not a great idea for the crabs to always be exposed to it-a simple dechlorinator like Ammolock 2 ought to do just fine-but I don't think that's what killed your poor crabbies. It sounds like you're doing a fantastic job, and like these crabs came in with something wrong.