Hole in the Back

[silvercamaro77]

When I was redecorating the other day, I was holding my biggest Straw (who I still have not named ) and he leaned way out of his shell. When he did, I noticed that he has a rather large hole in his back. His actual back not just the back of the shell.Has anyone else noticed anything like this before? He seems to be acting fine, but I'm still a bit worried. Here are a couple of pics.

[Guest]

I know there are some bacterial infections of shrimp that can cause pitting in the carapace. I would imagine the same thing could occur in crabs. So far, shrimp that I've had that showed symptoms usually did not get worse (or better) with molts. I never saw it pass from shrimp to shrimp (but I WAS careful to remove the shed of the affected shrimp after a molt, if I was able). To my knowledge, there is nothing commercially available for treatment of such infections.... but then again, most pathological information on shrimp is in the food industry. Sigh. I imagine there are some medications that might be tried (say, perhaps, nitrofurazone or kanamycin?), but I don't have any idea what effect they would have on shrimp. Until I can find someone IN the shrimp-for-food industry, the best I can do is try to locate infected shrimp and play a trial and error game to see what might work - NOT cool, NOT fun. Also, I have had shrimp that were afflicted that did live their natural lifespan.... Perhaps the illness is not life-threatening.I do not know if such infections occur in land hermit crabs, but I imagine so.I would also think that parasites (like mites) could cause such problems, but I'd really think the wounds would be in the joints of the carapace, not exposed and on the back like that.??

[silvercamaro77]

I thought of mites, but I'm pretty sure it's not that as I have only one afflicted crab, and have not seen any evidence of mites, or anything else for that matter. I bought my 4 other straws at the same time as this one, and of the 2 I have been able to get a look at they are fine.Sabrina, your post is very helpful. I hadn't thought of an infection. I guess the only thing I had thought of was mites... I'm going to look into it and see what I find. I do feel better knowing that the shrimp can live a normal life while afflicted.

[GSnicklegrove]

There are alot of possibilities. Parasites, bugs.It looks like a case of shell disease. But, before anyone freaks out, shell disease, like pps is a grouping for many things. In using the term shell disease, it refers to any invasive bacteria, fungal, viral, parasital or algea infection that cause deteriorization of the shell. Generally, an accident, a knick, an injury a whole leaves an opening for an invasive algea or what not to enter and proliferate underneathe. Depending on the causes, and what kind, some can be very lethal and very dangerous, even spreading, usually amongst immune compromised specimans. Studies done with groupings of lobsters with shell disease have found one of the links in common is living in waters that have high heavy metal pollution, such as closed in bay waters. Pollutants of most concern at this time are lead and mercury, but there are others. The link between heavy metals and immune problems in all animals is not new. In the case of crustaceans, the metals are theoried to interfere with teh complex reactions that form the complex polysaccharide chains that form the exoskeleton. Each mini fusion has a specific purpose, fired off by hormones, and following the genetic path. One set of these reactions that help produce a specific enzyme in the exoskeleton that has immune properties is being found to not work properly in lobsters with heavy metal contamination. Metals such as mercury and lead work as conductors, thus, the potentiality of them throwing the whole moulting process off is great, little by little. Holes can also be the direct effects of heavy metals for the same above reasons, depending what part of the polyssacharide chains are being affected.Fast forward here, moults gone wrong that are not detected with teh naked eye can nevertheless exist. This is one of the reasons that crustaceans found in areas of high metal pollution are more affected by invasive organisms under their cuticles, they have lost immune properties.Shell disease in some instances can be deadly, spreading rather quickly, and then becomming systematic.In other instances, a chunck out of the shell can be the entry for an invasive organism, but it doesn't mean that the organism is going to grow or go anywhere else. In a healthy exoskeleton, invasive pathogens cannot move.There is alot being researched currently, and scientists are waiting for answers. There is not much more to know on this subject until these studies conclude and get published.My advice, watch these holes. If they grow larger over time, or you see direct discoloration around the hole, you have a problem, and should consider putting your crab in iso. I wouldn't seperate the crab unless you know it is a real problem.If the holes stay pretty constant, without growing gray or black discoloration, the most likely probability is your crab is fine, and will, with subsequent moults fix the hole. If holes grow with gray/black discoloration, you've got a problem. I have a safe herbal formula I have developed that helps with infections, healing and other crab issues. It is not a cure, but merely a safe anti-bacterial and anti-microbial with soothing botanical properties that induce faster healing.I use this myself. While I have stopped shell disease with it, and others have had success with it in regards to shell disease, holes, and other little pesky infections, and sometimes general illnesses, I cannot guarantee it will work for everyone. We don't knwo the causes of every case, and can't treat. The good part is, it is safe is used properly. Anyone who wants the recipe can contact Aviate or myself, but we make no guarantees...it is just something to try, if you HAVE a problem. Also, I like to say, NEVER use anything if your crab is fine, or do not confuse the regular markings and spots on your crab with an actual infection or injury. Black spots on crabs is normal.If this damage is being caused by a parasital infection, most likely, this formula can do nothing for it.That's all I have to offer, only for those that want to try it, and feel they have a crab that needs it. Gertie

[silvercamaro77]

I'm also wondering if it might be from slight malnutrition prior to the last molt? Or even just a fluke of some sort. Kind of like how dimples in humans are from lack of development of muscles etc.It doesn't seem very likely, but it's a thought.

[Guest]

quote:I do feel better knowing that the shrimp can live a normal life while afflicted. Indeed, the shrimp I had that was the worst off is still alive and kickin'. She's an Atya gabonensis, and though this species hasn't been bred in captivity (well, there might be a recent occurance in Germany) she's been carrying (fertilized!!) eggs from time to time. So she's obviously still a viable, relatively healthful animal. Just gotta figure out what to do when those eggs hatch.... Something's just not working out, somewhere along the line.I do sincerely hope that the crabs can get on fine even with such ailments.

[GSnicklegrove]

Silver, I gave worse case scenarios, but flukes happen. I am sure we'll find out one day, not having access to the right essential oils and such might also have an influence on this process. Malnutrition can be the source of any number of illnesses in animals.Gertie

[silvercamaro77]

I got my straw out, and I'm pretty sure I see actual crab through the hole. When I looked at from a slight angle their was definitly a gap between the exo and the actual crab, but that crab under the exo isn't the same color as a freshly molted crab. Instead it's darker, and looks like it either has some dirt or something stuck to it or the "crab area" has hardened slightly, not as much as the exo has, but just a little.kyky, can you see actual crab through the hole?

[Aviate]

I can definitely see crab innards. Its hard to tell what type exactly, nothing gooey or bloody or anything, its solid and clean looking.

[silvercamaro77]

Not from me, although I am wondering if everyone else's crab with the hole is in a shell that fits, is too small, or is too large.My straw is in a shell that is waaaaay too small. All he can do to retract is clench and tuck his eyes down. He's as far out of shell when he "retracts" as most other crabs are when they are just walking around normally.

[NewCrabber]

I too, had a hermie with a hole in his carapace. He was a good sized E and the hole was rather big. Whatever the cause, it didn't seem to have a negative outward affect. I had concerns that whether it was some kind of disease or mites that it might spread to his tank mates, but as far as I know, that didn't happen. Unfortunately, he had a horrible molt and didn't make it. The following is an old post I thought some of you might be interested in if you've not seen it before. ~~~~~ Subject: Gill Mites Posted by christa (active hermie) Posted on 08/23/02 12:55 PM Hi Crystal,Here is part of a message I posted to HermieTalk back in February. RE: Gill Mites There is a type of mite that lives in the crabs' gill area. Occasionally the mite causes brown/black spots on the thorax of the crab. Sometimes it even eats a hole through the top skin of the thorax. I have one crab whose entire side of her cephalothorax is eaten away. When the crab molts, she will grow a new carapace, and hopefully not have this problem again. I rescued her about a year ago and she is still doing fine, and in pre-molt. However, since the mites are arthropods (same family as hermit crabs) no one can use any chemicals on the mites without killing the crabs. The only thing Don ever advocated for killing mites was a brief saltwater bath. But that was for external "dust mites" and even then, if the mites live inside the crabs there isn't much you can do. You never see the mites themselves. I have spent a lot of time sitting there, watching a 'hole' in the crabs' back waiting for a mite to come out and nada. Perhaps with the bathing and care we give the crabs, the mites die. Perhaps not. But this is one pest we apparently can't do much about. I originally learned about this mite in a pamphlet of information I got from FMR. The FMR pamphlet says that crabs have all sort of internal parasites that do not effect the crabs' health, and this is one of them. I take issue with that because "eating a hole in them" would certainly seem to affect their health, but the funny thing is, it doesn't! Crabs that are splotched, or holey or otherwise (like "Gillian" missing half her thorax) are otherwise active and doing well. So I leave them alone. Sometimes after they molt, they never get the splotches or holes again, and that's great. It's the most I can hope for. ====================== Mad about crabs! Visit my website http://www.hermit-crabs.com/

[Snapfish]

Yes, by "thrown off" I mean 2 things, that they recover, and that when they molt, they are once again whole, and appear to be ok.My little crab with this problem is listless, but at night, when I check, he is galloping around with everyone else, so I assume he feels fairly well.I noticed this first when he molted a few months ago, and his exo had a hole in the back part of the head.I've had him almost a year.

[Snapfish]

Well, my understanding is that it is a mite that drills into the head of the crab. It also can be thrown off by the crab. My crab has not thrown it off yet, but I have hopes that he will.It is supposed to be fairly harmless. You just wake up one morning, observe your crab and notice he has a hole in the back of his head. If this happens don't panic! He is just fine. (uh-huh)