Thoughts On Crab Retailers

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:30 am

Ok...I had a private conversation recently with the guy who owns reptile city and I felt I needed to share it with the forum, even at the risk of offending some people. The guy, Felton, has stopped shipping exotics because he feels that when he has, he's been slandered by forums such as ours. He was one of the first people to make straws available in the US. He prides himself on taking good care of his animals and treating them ethically. He is well respected by many in the business as shipping very carefully and ensuring the health of the animals. Felton feels that he and others like him have had their reputations damaged by some of the posts on some of the forums. He also feels there is an agenda by some crab activists to put the crabbing business out of business, and only allow adoption. He and I agreed that there is no difference between buying from a pet shop and buying thru the mail as the animals have to be shipped anyway. Wouldn't it be better to buy from him healthy crabs than ones who've been stressed in awful pet shops? He told me that the harvesting of crabs is managed and there is no overharvesting going on in the legal areas of the world. He also made the point that citizens of many third world countries make their living harvesting crabs and selling them to brokers.Just wanted to put the message out there. I do feel its important for us to discuss this openly and honestly, without attacking anybody.Sorry so long,

Nicole · Post by **Nicole** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:19 am

Here is a link to his hermit crab page, for those who wish to see it: http://www.reptilecity.com/Merchant2/me ... e=HERMIT.I know there was at least one thread on here about him awhile back, but it must be gone at this point. I don't exactly remember what was said, either. I wonder how he is certain there is no overharvesting (questionable with regards to the legal vs. illegal areas of the world). Especially when, as he states, there are people in third world countries who make a living harvesting hermit crabs and selling them. I was under the impression that hermit crabs weren't highly regulated as far as how many are taken off the beaches. There's some guy on eBay right now selling crabs right off the beaches and we can't find a way to stop him. He's not being regulated, so I doubt that others are either.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:18 am

The part that I remember about the old threads was that people were getting shipment after shipment of dead frozen Hermit Crabs because there was either no heat pack in the box or one that was not activated so it didn't work. Then Felton would say "Oh sorry, we forgot to activate it" or "Oh sorry new employee" That much I do remember. I believe that word of mouth is the best way to spread the word of a good business or a bad one and for obvious reasons shipments of dead crabs will do that to a hermit crabs business. J/M/O We have gone through the same thing with Josh at Hermits-Direct.I mean look how good Eric did at his Hermit Crab Business. He was a great and caring business owner and a lot of us here recommended and purchased from him many times. By good word of mouth which is brought on by good business practices.Sandra

Ren1216 · Post by **Ren1216** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:37 am

In a way, yes... I would like to see more of these guys go out of business. Too many crabs are needlessly dying because, like it or not, Felton and others in this business are not harvesting and selling crabs for the benefit of you OR the crabs. It's a business. It's about money... profit... plain and simple. Sure, all of us want to get our pets from distributors who care for them properly through out the journey from beach to our homes. But I still have to agree with those who say adoption is better than buying. I love my crabs, I really do. I bought my crabs from the mall and from a pet store. Now that I have learned more about that process, I have not bought any more because I really dislike the idea of supporting the manner in which they are collected and distributed. If I could see some proof and have word-of-mouth recommendations about this man and his practices, I may be persuaded to buy from him... but I cant say that for sure.It IS a topic worth of discussion, I do agree with that. I dont mean to sound harsh, but please understand that a few bad apples really do spoil the whole barrel. And in this case, its more than just a few bad apples, its MOST of them. JMO.

kuplakrabs · Post by **kuplakrabs** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:07 am

quote:Originally posted by Ren1216:I have not bought any more because I really dislike the idea of supporting the manner in which they are collected and distributed. I feel the same way and will no longer purchase crabs. I do think there is very little difference whether you purchase online and have them shipped or walk into a pet store and buy them. Either way they are shipped. However, if the place you order from online can let them destress for a period of a few months first, I think they would fare much better than if they were sent out immediately after arriving at the retailer. I also do not wish to offend, but there are those who vehemently oppose winter shipping and judge others harshly for having crabs sent to them in the winter-yet they have no reservations about going to a pet store in the dead of winter and buying a crab. I see little difference in both scenarios. As far as heat packs go, they don't work properly unless the temperature is above 40F and there must be air circulating around it to activate it and keep it going. If crabs are properly packaged and sent when temps aren't below 40, they can arrive safely to the recipient. Wholesalers send them a hundred at a time-all together in a burlap or cloth bag with no heat packs-only a thermal type of material for warmth- to retailers (yes I have first hand knowledge of this). So which is worse? Being sent by a reputable retailer in individual containers with a moist sponge, proper packaging materials and a heat pack or the way they are sent to the store? Anyway, to get back on topic...I think it is a good system of checks and balances when we post our experiences on the forums-provide both sides are shared. I had a good experience with Josh-but and a big but it is, way too many others did not get so lucky. When a business chooses to ignore the concerns of the community to which it sells its products, they should be called out on it. I have no experience with Felton and don't remember any posts about him, but if he wishes to have the business of members here we look for a few things-good customer service, prices and quality. Steve from www.petdiscounters.com has been providing multitudes of LHC members with products for years-and the reason is because he cares and has a good work/business ethic. There is always room for more people like that

Crabby Abby · Post by **Crabby Abby** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:13 pm

quote:I also do not wish to offend, but there are those who vehemently oppose winter shipping and judge others harshly for having crabs sent to them in the winter-yet they have no reservations about going to a pet store in the dead of winter and buying a crab. I see little difference in both scenarios. I respect your viewpoint but I disagree with it. I'm one of those who opposes winter shipping but I did purchase new crabs one month ago. I think the difference is apples and oranges. I make sure my car is fully heated, parked close to the door, my time in the store is exceptionally short and the crabs are packaged for warmth. I brought a soft sided 6 pack insulated cooler with me.

rottiegirl25 · Post by **rottiegirl25** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:52 pm

My friend owns a petshop. He deals on a regular basis with this dealer and has nothing but good things to say aobut him and his animals. He has dealt with sevral distributers who he was ve unsatisifed with the animals, the way they were shipped and so on. He says that the animals he orders from this guy arrive healthy and shipped in proper conditions. I am plannig on getting some from there eventually. I think that to buy them from a good dealer versus getting them from a hidious petshop where they have not been treated well is better. I agree with adoption 100% but in my area there have been none to adopt. in my opion though its personal prefrence.

kuplakrabs · Post by **kuplakrabs** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:57 pm

But, the crabs were shipped during the winter. They were sent to the store from the wholesaler. Without the demand for them, there would be no supply and the stores would not carry them in the winter.Perhaps one apple is green and the other is red-but they are still apples And I know your a good crabbie mommy that takes good care of your babies and would give them the best conditions in transit to your home-no doubt about it. All of us here would.I was meerly trying to make a point about people who are very judgemental of others without taking a close look at themselves first. There really wasn't anyone in mind when I posted about it, but it was something I had wanted to get off my chest for a long time

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:39 pm

I can't see a store not selling a certain animal during one time of the year. To me that's like "No, we're not selling any puppies today. It's too cold out." I don't know. Do they do that?At least you're taking them from the store though, the ones that were shipped in winter, and making sure that they have a proper place to destress. Right?I just came from a Petco and guess what...they didn't have a single hermit crab. I didn't ask why. I think they might've been under construction from the hurricane. Probably still having problems with the mail.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:43 pm

I'm sorry if I've opened up a can of worms here. I just think it probably should be discussed. I would always prefer to adopt, but I haven't had any luck with it. I would prefer to have the crabs shipped safely to me, so I can put them in ISO with high humidity and warmth; I think they'd undergo a bit less stress, by skipping the shop altogether.I don't know what prior posts of Felton contain, but I can tell you I've heard from dealers that he's reputable. I can also tell u that from my conversation with him, he seems to be open to discussing the crabs and their welfare. I just think that it would be better for crabs, crabbers, and sellers if we could all work together to ensure the best living conditions we can provide for the animals. Felton mentioned to me that he had been considering investing in some more real estate to set up natural habitats for the animals.Also, I purchased E's from Josh, and in all fairness to him, they arrived healthy and are doing well.Also--can anybody tell me who Eric is? What is his company? I'd like to contact him since it sounds like he does a good job with the hermies.

Nicole · Post by **Nicole** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:20 pm

Eric owned The Hermit Shack on eBay, and I think he is the site owner of http://www.hermitcrabsrus.com. From what I understand, he and Josh no longer ship hermit crabs.You didn't open up a can of worms at all. It's great to have these discussions; I just wish we still had the original threads to refer back to.I do agree that there is little difference between an online store shipping crabs and a wholesaler shipping them. My local stores are not good at all with regards to hermit crab care and in that sense, shipping from a retailer would probably seem more humane. I guess the problems that occur from a retailer poorly shipping crabs are just more glaring.There's really no "right" answer because of the harvesting. That is the real problem, that we are taking these wild animals out of their native surroundings and forcing them through shipping into often unhospitable conditions. I feel guilty whenever I think about that. They deserve so much better.

Crabby Abby · Post by **Crabby Abby** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:21 am

quote:Originally posted by kuplakrabs:But, the crabs were shipped during the winter. They were sent to the store from the wholesaler. Without the demand for them, there would be no supply and the stores would not carry them in the winter.Perhaps one apple is green and the other is red-but they are still apples I was meerly trying to make a point about people who are very judgemental of others without taking a close look at themselves first. There really wasn't anyone in mind when I posted about it, but it was something I had wanted to get off my chest for a long time You make a very valid argument Wendy, and I agree with you now. Very true. Dumb as it sounds, I wouldn't buy direct from a shipper in the winter but I never stopped to think that's just how the stores get theirs. Very narrow minded thinking on my part. I need a smack in the head.

Ren1216 · Post by **Ren1216** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:05 am

Ok question..... where does Felton get his crabs? Are they shipped to him? If so, does he then he turn around and ship them a second time to the customer? And what happens to the crabs between shipping, if they are shipped twice?Or is Felton getting them straight off the beach?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:16 am

I know he's not getting them off the beach. He has brokers that he buys from (they are the contacts overseas). I'm continuing my correspondence with Felton. He is very interested in working with us to promote the health and safety of all the animals in the reptile trade. He is very serious about developing a natural environment, refuge for these animals to destress before going to homes. I know he'd listen to our concerns and is trying to effect change in the industry. I think it'd be wonderful to work that closely with a seller, esp. one who wants our input as to creating natural habitats. I think its much more constructive to work with someone, when both parties are open minded to effecting change. We have the opportunity to change an industry and the treatment of animals in a positive way. I think thats truly exciting!!

Ren1216 · Post by **Ren1216** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:27 am

Give him a link to our site, I'm betting several of us would like the opportunity to ask him directly about the specifics of his business and discuss with him ideas of how it can be changed. The developing and managing of a 'natural environment' which you have spoken of will be costly! Who's going to pay for that? Its a nice thought, to basically rehabilitate the crabs after their first leg of the trip, but I just dont think its that simple. Thats going to cost the comsumer in the end, obviously. I'm not saying it wouldn't be worth the added cost to us... but what I am saying is that the market will be small because for every one of us who give a rip about this whole process and are willing to pay more for this assurance, there are probably 100+ who dont know any better and will buy elsewhere for cheaper. And how would we even know that whats being promised is actually happening?We're a "tough sell", but only because we truly CARE about these crabs and how they are treated. I believe our reasons for being so harsh on such subjects are justified, or at least understandable.