Brown stuff on legs?

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:51 pm

I don't know if this is an emergency or not, but today when I was dealing with the tank, I noticed that Pretty looks as though his legs are covered with coffee grounds. At first I thought it was just ee, but it didn't wipe off easily. I gave his legs a little dip in salt water, but that didn't wash it off either.He last molted with me in early October, and has been fine until now, I think. He recently switched out of a turbo and into a Japanese land snail shell. I don't know if that means anything. He hasn't been doing anything too unusual - he has a corner hut that he likes to sit in, and that's where I usually see him. He's been kind of a protein eater lately, though.Now I've got him in ISO, which is all sand and some surface moss piles. He hasn't moved much since I put him there. He's just sitting in the moss. When I checked him out, he didn't come out to see me. He kind of let me see his legs and his eyes, but he didn't stretch out at all.I read through the illness forum in the library, but I didn't see anything that looked similar. One person had written about some post-molt discoloring. I don't know if it could be that, only pre-molt in Pretty's case? What do you recommend? He is a great crab, and I hate to see him sick. I don't have any medicinal bath on hand, but I can see if I could make some or contact the addiction for a quick shipment.

Nicole · Post by **Nicole** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:17 pm

Do you have a pic of his legs? What do the coffee grounds feel like when you touch them (hard, soft, spongy, gritty, etc.)?I have had cases of post-molt discoloring where the sand came in contact with the crabs' soft exo and they came up with what looked like "burn marks" or scarring on parts of their limbs, but there were no growths on any of the limbs. Am I to understand that these look/feel like growths on his limbs or are they flush with the rest of the exo? Is this the first you've noticed it?

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:30 pm

Hi Nicole! Thanks for the quick reply. This is the first time I've seen this. I saw him yesterday but didn't notice anything unusual then. He had been digging, and I thought at first that it was ee. The dark patch is flush against his skin, but the surface of the patch is not smooth - it almost looks like a scab - it feels hard and gritty. When I got some off, the bits looked like grains of sand - very small dark brown/black little bits. They didn't move at all, so I don't think they are bugs, but they could be. Higher up on the legs, they are scattered, almost like discolored/damaged setae. Down closer to the tips, they are more densely packed.I don't have a digital camera, but I will take some pictures and try to get the roll developed soon! I'll have to sit with him for awhile because he is not coming out of his shell much. I have been trying to find a picture of something like that out on the web. I will keep looking.

Nicole · Post by **Nicole** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:48 pm

Sent you a PM.I don't know if something could possibly be going on in the EE that could have caused some exo damage, or if this is some sort of parasite, or what's going on to be honest. I can kind of picture it in my head, but to fgure out a cause is another thing. Is it on his head/abdomen by chance or is it limited to his legs?

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:39 am

Well! I checked on Pretty this morning, and he MOLTED! I couldn't believe it. So that means his lethargy was probably a pre-molt symptom... Maybe the brown stuff on his legs was something he wanted gone ASAP.So he was already in ISO, fortunately, and I have a dark towel over his tank. I gave him clean water and some food - krill, worm castings, eggshells, mangrove and pecan leaves.I read somewhere last night in my frantic web search that when a crab has a black spot or something he isn't supposed to eat that part of the exo. Can anyone corroborate? I know that there is plenty of misinformation out there. If I need to remove the legs from the tank, I can take a picture (I never got one last night since he didn't come out for me - now I know why!). The brown patches are not as pronounced now, but you can still them.So here's the big question: Do you think there's a problem with my substrate? Because Ghost molted topside, and he didn't make it, and now Pretty had this. This is the tank that I got when I adopted Pretty, and it has two bottom mounted UTHs on it. That concerned me, so I put some glass/pebbles over the heat pads and then put down substrate, which is mostly EE and about 1/4 sand. It's probably 4 to 6 inches deep (it waves a little). I read last night somewhere that EE can cause problems like brown spots because of ingredients other than coco fiber in the blend. The heaters dry out the substrate a bit, so I add water to it daily, in the corners. Temp and humidity seem good to me: 75 temp, 75 - 80 humidity.

Nicole · Post by **Nicole** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:52 am

I've had to remove exo twice from crabs that was foul-smelling and basically inedible. I think you'd be better to do that than leave it in and risk a problem. Rather than all the other food right now, though, what he needs is access to peeled shrimp exo which would be the closest approximation to his own exo. Calcium (various sources) can also be offered too. If you can't get to the store, krill or dried baby shrimp would do although I'd try on the 26th to get some fresh shrimp exo.I don't use EE so I was under the impression that it was 100% coconut fiber, but maybe others who have a package on hand can answer you better. What about mixing it 50/50 with playsand instead of 75/25? I'm not sure why you'd have two topsiders, either, but if something is keeping them from digging it *might* be the UTHs if the crabs think it is too hot. Most crabs will gladly dig under with moist, deep substrate. I had a few topside molters when I first started crabbing but my sand was just too dry and shallow to allow for proper digging (didn't know this at the time!)so tinkering with the set-up eliminated all the topsides. Good luck with him!

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:42 am

Thanks Nicole! I will pull out that exo and replace it with some shrimp exo. I have some in the freezer. I peeked in on him today and he hasn't had any of his exo, but I think he ate the honey (or spilled it into the moss). He's head first in the cocohut right now, with the empty honey shell behind him. The exo is pushed off to the side, so I can get it without bugging him.I will get play sand and change the proportions in the tank, just in case! I'm going to make it deeper, too, because of the UTHs and the pebbles. I was thinking last night that DUH! They need 4 - 6 inches on top of that rather than including that. Maybe that will give them some cooler substrate to do their thing in. That tank came with the UTHs already on the bottom, so I went with it, but I wonder if I should try to pull them off of the bottom and put them onto the side. I read a thread about doing that somewhere. The only problem with adjusting the heaters right now is that Friend is buried under the salt water dish. I think I can work around her to redo the substrate, but there's no way I can turn the whole tank over without bugging her!Anyway, thank you SO MUCH for helping me on Christmas! I feel so blessed to have found this forum with such great and giving admins. I wish you a lovely Christmas.

Nicole · Post by **Nicole** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:02 pm

I wouldn't mess with moving the UTHs until your one crabby comes up, just in case. Once he's up you can follow the directions on the thread to remove them (I've never done this but I know you have to go really gently and slowly!) and side-mount them, which would keep your substrate from drying out if that's a problem and eliminate the need for the pebbles. Keep in mind that side-mounting reduces the amount of heat getting into the tank so you'll have to keep an eye on that and make adjustments and use other heating methods if necessary.Keep on posted on your molter; hope his new exo looks healthy and he continues to gain strength.

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:07 am

Pretty is recovering nicely from his molt. He's starting to regain his coloring and is resting comfortable in ISO.I thought I would share these pictures of his shed exo, with the brown patches circled. I hope they are helpful in identifying the disease/injury or helping future crabbers!

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:55 pm

Just an update - Pretty is up and about (and believe it or not, shell shopping) in the ISO tonight! It looks like his new legs are not afflicted by the brown patches.He's going to stay in ISO for a while longer. I want to get my 75 set up, and then I'll see how he's progressing.

Nicole · Post by **Nicole** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:06 pm

That's great that his new legs are staying completely clean. It will be a nice homecoming when he's finally able to rejoin his buddies; it's always good when a problem is resolved successfully.