Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

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CrabbyHermit
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Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by CrabbyHermit » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:07 am

Please help. Thought I was doing ok. Did tons of research but am failing miserably. I have a 20 gallon long. It was a bearded dragon kit, lady at the petstore said I could use the lights and the under tank heaters only warm it a bit. But the lights are too hot and the humidity plummets. So I've changed things around. Currently I have saran warp on the lid, using a night bulb because of the low wattage. A 7 watt undertake heater on the side insulated with tin foil. Have two bowls of freshwater, cave, driftwood to climb. The substrate is sand. I've been misting and misting, tried drenching the lower sand. Shrimp and krill for food dusted with calcium. I'll add a Instant Ocean bath back in tomorrow. I'd upload a photo but since I need to put it on photobucket I can't right now.

I lost one crab already, he lost his big claw and the next day all his other claws. One of my little guys lost a claw but is hanging on. Two of my little ones have dug under, I think perhaps because of not enough humidity. I'm really worried. I keep trying new things and isn't working!

I figure I need a low wattage day bulb or a bigger side heater? My sand is pretty fine but I was thinking mix it all with water till it's damp? I've tried looking for a different lid online but have failed. Other than that I'm lost.

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soilentgringa
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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by soilentgringa » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:39 am

Hi, can you please fill out these questions so we can help you pinpoint the issue.

Your UTH may not be warming the tank at all. Heat lamps also sap humidity and depending on wattage, they could be much too hot/powerful for the 20 gallon tank.

We will have a better idea of the whole picture when you answer the questions. Thanks!

http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... hp?t=46102

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wodesorel
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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by wodesorel » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:50 am

Sounds like you're a little overwhelmed! :) The pet store lady was right that the basic kit can work, but there's a lot of stuff in there that needed to be tossed to make it crab safe.

First off, if the crabs are new I don't think the conditions are the cause of the one that died. Post Purchase Syndrome is a major killer and unavoidable, and unless you cooked them or froze them a few days of imperfectness is not enough to permanently harm them. More likely they were already suffering when you got them. We have an article on PPS here that explains it all in detail: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=92531

Now - on to the kit. Are you using the sand that came with it? If so - toss it! That's a calcium sand and is bad for the hermits. It grows bacteria and clings to them when wet. You need to get some regular children's playsand, which is silica based. Make it moist enough so it holds it's shape without dripping - this lets dig tunnels to molt safely, and it boosts your humidity levels. Add in some moistened cocofiber for an even bigger humidity boost - most crabbers suggest 5 parts sand to 1 part cocofiber but if you're having trouble you can use more cocofiber for a bigger impact.

I'd say a good 95% of the time, properly maintained substrate is all you need to keep your humidity levels where they need to be. The substrate will dry out, so you have to keep up with it and make sure it stays moist without becoming flooded.

Also - do you know what your temperature and humidity levels are? You can't guess! We humans suck at guessing the weather, and hermits need to be around 80 degrees and 80% humidity. With heat lamps there is a trade off between heat and humidity, so you have to get a little creative and seal up the lid, put the water bowls beneath the light, or add in moist moss pits that will help to offset the dryness.

You can dust the food for them, but it's kind of overkill. Shrimp and krill are both loaded in calcium and hermits do not have such a high need for supplements as reptiles do. Better to leave a little dish out and let them eat what they feel they need. Are they getting anything else to eat? They need fruit daily, and veggies and plant matter, too!

The link that SG gave you has all the questions we need to know to be able to get a full picture of what's going on and be able to give the best advice possible. :)
Want to see all my crazy pets? @waywardwaifs on Instagram


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CrabbyHermit
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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by CrabbyHermit » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:09 pm

1. What kind of substrate is used in your tank and how deep is it?

It's this" http://www.homedepot.com/p/Quikrete-50- ... 00318518It goes from an inch to 5 or 6 inches. I am looking for coco fiber but will likely have to order it.

2. Do you have gauges in the tank to measure temperature and humidity? If so, where are they located and what temperature and humidity do they usually read?

Yes. In the middle nearish the top. 80 temp and humidity varies. If I'm home spraying etc 50 ish. ( This is the reason I came here, I need help with this. )

3. Is a heat source used in the tank? If so, what?

7 watt side heater and night bulb. Also need help. The one that came with the tank is too hot. I was thinking of buying a 60 gallon tank heater and buying some led lights but how would they get uva. A low wattage day bulb?

4. What types of water are available (fresh or salt) and how is the water treated (what brands of dechlorinator or salt mix and what ratio is used to mix it)?

Freshwater and Instant Ocean mix. Currently betta dechlorination since I read I can't use one with slime coat which is my other option. Can I use Prime?

5. What kinds of food do you feed and how often is it replaced?

Krill and Shrimp pieces. I had bought hermit crab food but it said to feed with cakes which I hadn't picked up. I went to buy the food but read it was shrimp which I already had and the protein was a higher amount.

6. How long have you had the crab and what species is it, if known?

A week for three of them and the other three a few days. One died from the second batch so currently 5 and going to keep it that way.

7. Has your crab molted, and how long ago did it happen?

No.

8. What type of housing are the crabs kept in, what size is it and what kind of lid is on the housing?

20 gallon long. Screen lid with saran wrap on most of it.

9. How many crabs are in the tank and about how large are they?

5. Three small, one medium, one large.

10. How many extra shells are usually kept in the tank, if any?

9 or 10.

11. Have there been any fumes or chemicals near the crabitat recently?

No.

12. How often do you clean the tank and how?

As needed. Replace and clean food dish daily, fresh water daily. Haven't needed to deep clean it all yet but likely replace all of the sand etc.

13. Are sponges used in the water dish? If so, how are they cleaned?

Just added today but do they need to be IN the dishes? Why?

14. Has anything new been added to your crabitat recently?

No.

15. Is there any other information you would like to share that might be helpful (anything that is regularly part of your crab care, playtime, bathing, etc.)?

I'm frustrated on trying to regulate the humidity, temp. One crab died a couple days after getting him. A couple tunneled I'm afraid because the humidity isn't high enough. I am NOT close to ANY petstore. I rely on Walmart mostly but but a LOT of my animal stuff online. Closest petstore is an hour away.

16. Please describe the emergency situation in detail.

One crab died and I'm afraid of more deaths. I need help with temp and humidity control and diet too please. Also why is the smell of the tank so awful! It's clean just switched them to this tank.

wodesorel wrote:Sounds like you're a little overwhelmed! :) The pet store lady was right that the basic kit can work, but there's a lot of stuff in there that needed to be tossed to make it crab safe.

First off, if the crabs are new I don't think the conditions are the cause of the one that died. Post Purchase Syndrome is a major killer and unavoidable, and unless you cooked them or froze them a few days of imperfectness is not enough to permanently harm them. More likely they were already suffering when you got them. We have an article on PPS here that explains it all in detail: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=92531

Now - on to the kit. Are you using the sand that came with it? If so - toss it! That's a calcium sand and is bad for the hermits. It grows bacteria and clings to them when wet. You need to get some regular children's playsand, which is silica based. Make it moist enough so it holds it's shape without dripping - this lets dig tunnels to molt safely, and it boosts your humidity levels. Add in some moistened cocofiber for an even bigger humidity boost - most crabbers suggest 5 parts sand to 1 part cocofiber but if you're having trouble you can use more cocofiber for a bigger impact.

I'd say a good 95% of the time, properly maintained substrate is all you need to keep your humidity levels where they need to be. The substrate will dry out, so you have to keep up with it and make sure it stays moist without becoming flooded.

Also - do you know what your temperature and humidity levels are? You can't guess! We humans suck at guessing the weather, and hermits need to be around 80 degrees and 80% humidity. With heat lamps there is a trade off between heat and humidity, so you have to get a little creative and seal up the lid, put the water bowls beneath the light, or add in moist moss pits that will help to offset the dryness.

You can dust the food for them, but it's kind of overkill. Shrimp and krill are both loaded in calcium and hermits do not have such a high need for supplements as reptiles do. Better to leave a little dish out and let them eat what they feel they need. Are they getting anything else to eat? They need fruit daily, and veggies and plant matter, too!

The link that SG gave you has all the questions we need to know to be able to get a full picture of what's going on and be able to give the best advice possible. :)
Thanks for the reply! I am overwhelmed, feel like I'm doing everything wrong. I'll check out the post purchase syndrome. Looks like I need to research more on diet.

I'm thinking these changes need to be made: Higher wattage heating pad, lamp for uva but low wattage, mixing water with substrate like a sand castle and add coco fiber. I'll be doing what I can tonight and have to wait for more supplies to arrive. Does this sound like a good plan at all?

My tank: Image

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megmaholm
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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by megmaholm » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:29 pm

I know it can be overwhelming, but we've all been there! :) Your changes all sound like a good plan. What type of tank heater are you looking at? If you haven't already, check out Ultratherms - they're popular, cheaper and more reliable than pet store brands, and be safely insulated to boost heat further. Whatever under tank heater you get, you want the biggest one that will fit on the back of your tank without going too far below your substrate line.

Some other ideas to boost humidity are putting bubblers in your pools and add a moss pit. Have you calibrated your hygrometer to make sure it's giving you an accurate humidity reading?

Definitely research diet - it's pretty simple to give them what they need once you get the hang of it :) We have care sheets that cover pretty much everything so it's a good starting point!

If you need to order coco fiber, Amazon sells a 3 pack of "bricks" that's pretty reasonable.

Prime is one of the best dechlorinators to use, in my opinion, and it's super reasonably priced.
Crabbing since July 2014! 75 gallon with 12 Purple Pinchers.


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CrabbyHermit
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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by CrabbyHermit » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:38 pm

Would you just tape one of those to the back then? It looks similar to the one I'm using currently. I'll have to look up moss pit that's new to me.

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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by wodesorel » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:42 pm

Did you calibrate the hygrometer to make sure it's reading correctly? Many times they're off or broken and that's the cause of the headache. It's easy, instructions are here: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=92540

UVA light is not needed. We're not even sure they need UVB since crustaceans don't use it to process calcium, but it certainly seems to make them more active. Most of us use a regular daylight bulb and those who can afford it and make it work (since it can't be used through glass or plastic and needs replaced every 12 month) will splurge on a UVB light.

Slime coat is hermit crab safe. Prime is excellent!

For sure they need more in their diet. If you have any fruit in the house like apples or bananas give them some of that to start. :) They need the sugars and carbohydrates. Protein is important but they cannot live on it alone.

5 in a 20 is tight, so watch them to make sure they're all getting along. Substrate should be at least three to four deeper than your biggest crab. For a large this can mean around 8-10 inches. 6 inches is just a starting point, and the more you can have the safer they'll be while molting since it keeps them hidden from the others.

Deep cleaning is something that not a lot of us bother with anymore. They aren't dirty animals and spot cleaning is often enough. With cocofiber in the substrate the poo will naturally break down. I haven't changed sub in my tanks in years! It's too hard to work around molters.

No, sponges should not be used in the water dishes unless you plan to clean them daily. They are bacterial messes when wet.

The smell is likely from the krill and shrimp. They probably dragged a piece off and it's slowly decaying.

Your plan sounds good. :)

Here's some links to help!
Our basic careguide, if you haven't seen it yet: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=92457
In depth nutritional information: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=92554
A list of all the safe foods they can eat: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=92557
Information on UVB lighting (at the bottom): viewtopic.php?f=26&t=92543
Information on humidity and ideas on how to get more: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=92544
Want to see all my crazy pets? @waywardwaifs on Instagram

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megmaholm
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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by megmaholm » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:44 pm

Ultratherms aren't sticky at all, so yep, you can attach them with tape - packing tape, duct tape, aluminum tape..whatever works.

A moss pit is just something with crab safe moss in it :) The most popular type of moss seems to be sphagnum moss, which you can get in the orchid potting section of Lowes or Home Depot. A good size bag of organic moss cost me about $4. I filled a Dollar Tree container with it after soaking it in dechlorinated water. The crabs sleep in it, eat it, etc.
Crabbing since July 2014! 75 gallon with 12 Purple Pinchers.


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CrabbyHermit
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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by CrabbyHermit » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:29 pm

Finally have the humidity and heat high enough. Not much air flow but it works i guess for now. I did loose a second crab. I noticed him just kinda laying there and was worried. What's the most commonly fed food combos?

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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by mlakers » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:50 pm

Your link for the sand didn't work for me, but I saw "Quikrete" in the link. There's a Quikrete Playsand sold at Home Depot (which is safe and great) but there's also a Quikrete All-Purpose sand used in constructionn. Do you know which one you picked up? The playsand is a white bag with red lettering.

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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by wodesorel » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:09 am

I do a lot of apples, bananas, pineapple, oranges - things we have in the house. I'll splurge on other stuff when it's in season and cut it into tiny pieces and freeze it or dry it so it lasts forever. They LOVE coconut, and do it right and get two cocohuts out of the deal. Veggies I don't go out of the way for and they get scraps when I make dinner. Things in the squash/cucumber family are popular. For protein I find freeze-dried fish and reptile treats to be the easiest and supplement that with meat scraps.

You can buy good mixes from any hermit crab specialty store. Pet stores sell dried fruit and veggie mixes for herbivore reptiles that are also crab safe, some mixes have insects as well. Just make sure it's 100% freeze dried with no additives.

mlakers, not everyone agrees, but the all purpose sand is okay to use. I have a couple bags mixed into my tank. :)
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CrabbyHermit
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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by CrabbyHermit » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:03 pm

Well I got coconut fiber mixed into the sand ( 50# sand and 1/2 block of coconut ok?) humidity is good, heat could be a bit higher. When I picked up the coconut fiber I couldn't help but pick out another crab. He didn't look the best to me but I felt bad for him. He's sat in the same spot for 24 hours now. I do know he's alive but is this normal? I feel like my crabs aren't as active as I've read about online.... My other big guy kept trying to steal his shell so I found more and put in there but now he's partially buried himself. ( The other crab he was with when she lifted him up he was just limp I feel so bad for him, poor thing. )

How do you buy your shells? A bulk lot online or a few specific sizes? Just curious I have different sized crabs and wondered which would be more cost effective. The ones I have now are walmart but I'd like more.

Also how will I know if my buried crabs have died?


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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by Bonk » Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:17 am

Hi CrabbyHermit, I will make only a few comments: active crabs are usually active once they have fully settled into routine life in the new crabitat (i.e. have shell-changed if need be, moulted, housed in ideal conditions). After plenty of experiences with my own colony, I've also found that some are more inclined to be more adventurous than others. I would personally discourage you from buying any more crabs until you have got a stable environment in your tank. Buying them when your conditions aren't as good as they could be will most likely not make any impact in saving them in the long-term. Shell-fighting is serious business. If they have stopped for now I would leave them but keep a watchful eye on the pair. Shell shopping can definitely be painful - I buy from a shell-store in a near-by suburb, out of cheap-stores ($2 AUS for 30 babylonias the other day :clap: ), and I have also purchased from Deltona Seashells. I would base my choice of online stores off of reviews on this site e.g. I have every sized crab from 1/2 a grape up to a near-tennis-ball, so Deltona was my choice as I could buy in bulk and have minimal wastage of shells + get it cheap - postage costs would make up for what I had saved. It is difficult to tell whether your buried crabs have died as no matter the size crabs could be underground for 2months+, maybe the smell? I saw that you said your tank stinks, but I still would not immediately assume it is because of a dead crab. It's more of a wait (a long time) and see practice.
Proud owner of a 160L (40G) with 10 Australian hermits: Salvatore, Gillana, Polly 13/10/13; Cadet 25/08/14; Boho 5/09/15; Twinkie, Egg 27/09/15; Gumnut, Zipper, Rainbow 5/10/15.


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CrabbyHermit
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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by CrabbyHermit » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:25 pm

Thanks for the reply! The new guy has switched shells! And he was moving around this morning. He really needed a smaller shell, his was huge! And I don't plan on getting any more crabs now. It's like having a baby all over again, I'm such a worry wart!


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CrabbyHermit
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Re: Humidity Problems, lost one crab already.

Post by CrabbyHermit » Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:19 pm

I've decided to get another tank heater. How much can the heater go below the substrate? 1, 2, 3 inches?

Would it be better to cover half the aquarium or the top half if given a chance?

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