Aussie salt water myth?

tnt4eva · Post by **tnt4eva** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:18 pm

samurai_crab wrote:I'm just curious were the idea came from to limit it, considering they have access in the wild to saltwater whenever they want it. Why would their habits change in captivity that they can't handle access all the time? This is going on the assumption that they are in range of the ocean all the time, which it seems a few of the Australian crabbers have said they are. Being a biology major at school this whole idea of limiting something an animal requires and needs just seems odd if you take the assumption stated above. Now I'm definitely not an expert nor have i thoroughly researched Aussies since well I doubt I'll have the money/time/place to get some anytime soon but if/when I do its something I would want to know inside and out before keeping them as pets.

As far I know it originate with Merv Cooper, the wholesaler of Crazy Crabs, who also advocates painted shells and keeping crabs in sawdust.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:39 pm

Hi Suebee,

I also feel quite strongly about it, I guess we all want to do what is best for the crabs. Could you please tell us who the researcher is you are referring too when you said "same research of captive crabs on substrate and given daily salt water v/ once weekly for over 35 years"? I would like to read this research too. Also the Australian head researcher you are referring too Merv Cooper?

Thankyou Jennie

suebee · Post by **suebee** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:58 pm

let me suggest the reading of the whole thread and the threads that are linked to this one.. the salt water thing has been hashed out and rehashed out once to many times.. I understand some of you are new but i just dont have the energy in my current health to go through it all yet again..
I also want to say i have no idea who Merv Cooper is and i am not referring to any old no longer true advise on hermit crabs that is on the net.. most of the reading on the net are old.. in the past 3 years alone things have changed so very much.. and they are due to past many years of research..

tnt4eva · Post by **tnt4eva** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:09 am

Suebee, I noticed you said in the beginning of this thread that the man who exports them overseas told you they aren't found on the beaches. Crazy Crabs is the company who ships to the US and that company is owned by Merv Cooper.

Merv Cooper owns a company that paints shells. He tells people to keep crabs in sawdust for winter. About 8 years ago he was distributing a book to the pet stores selling hermit crabs stating that hermit crabs do not poop because they had a perfect digestive system. I do not know if his misinformation is deliberate, as a marketing ploy to make Australian hermit crabs seem low maintenance, or if he genuinely does not know better. The pet shops here who buy from him rely on his information in their care for crabs and I see so many crabs dead in pet shops due to poor conditions that he advocates.

They are definitely found on the beaches, by the water. I've posted scientific government documents stating that before. I'll see if I can find them again.

Here is his page on how to care for hermit crabs
http://www.crazycrabs.com/main.html

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:10 am

I have read the whole thread, before and then just again today. There is much quoting but no names. Merv Cooper is the founder of Crazy Crabs and Australia's Sole Exporter. He would be where ELHC get their Aussies from. It is his company which has the export license application which is online which has been quoted in this thread stating the location of the harvest.

So please - who are you referring too? Are you referring to Bob from ELHC? Who is the Australian Head researcher? If I can't read this research or even know who it was done by how do I know it is true?

Thankyou Jennie

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:17 am

This is directly from the Crazy crab website (supplier of ELHC)

"In the wild, the crabs get this salt from bathing on the shore, and from crawling around on wet beach sand as they look for food. Some would be obtained from the foods they find there.
In captivity it is a very easy task to keep your crabs' salt levels right. There are two ways you can do this:

1. Once a fortnight, you can give your crab a weak salty bath. By placing some room temperature water with a pinch of rock salt into a shallow bowl, either pick up the crab by his shell and gently dip his legs into it, or just let him crawl in and out at his leisure. [b]You can leave this salty water in their cage,[/b] but don't forget, they only drink the fresh water. Some people find it easier to do the bath every few weeks, and just supply fresh water everyday."

So even the Australian supplier of ELHC says on his website that the salt water CAN be left in all the time but some people find it easier to give them a bath rather then have two bowls.

I can not find a single source that supports the salt water restriction myth except what people have said on this site. I am not trying to be troublesome, if there is a credible piece of research you can show me then I would be happy to read it and go from there.

Thankyou Jennie

suebee · Post by **suebee** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:23 am

what makes you think ELHC gets crabs from Crazy crab?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:32 am

Because Crazy Crabs are the only exporter of Australian Land Crabs. There isn't anywhere else to get them.

tnt4eva · Post by **tnt4eva** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:43 am

Found the document

"Coenobita variabilis is distributed across northern Australia, from Exmouth Gulf to northern Queensland
(Jones and Morgan 1994). Individuals occur in the intertidal zone and up to 100 m from the shoreline.
They are common in mangroves, but also occur in sandy and rocky areas." (page 42)
[/url]http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/docs/esd/esd008/esd0008.pdf

suebee · Post by **suebee** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:28 am

First look at the dates of your internet research.. My suggestion, Write to your Australian Exporter Be specific.. ask about Coenobita variabilis
because it is not the only species that comes out of Australia. Documents are written unspecific on purpose for many reasons. Ask about salt water restrictions as well as substrate. Ask about research. You can mention ELHC you can mention what i have said. Im pretty sure that is the only place you will get info that you believe. Best of luck with your crabs..
Remember to also ask about the difference between the age of the crabs and how much difference it makes with the amount of salt water they should have.
younger crabs will tend to gorge on salt water more often then the older ones..

tigermoon89 · Post by **tigermoon89** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:25 pm

i see what is going to be the new species spec sheet says its ok to give salt water at all times but i would not agree. i also know of at least one head researcher in Austrailia who would not agree. Both ELHC and Hermit Crab Patch will agree on the Salt water weekly.

I have changed the Aussie care sheet to show that there is still much debate over the salt water issue. I have provided the links to this thread and the other so that the crabber can be informed and come to their own conclusion.

I would also like to apologize, I meant to edit the care sheet sooner because I found alot of debate on the issue in my research and meant to have the care sheet reflect that. I honestly forgot until this thread was brought to my attention.

tigermoon89 · Post by **tigermoon89** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:28 pm

Water:
Needs access to both dechlorinated fresh and marine grade salt water. They need to be able to fully submerge themselves in both.

It has been said that Aussies are salt water gorgers, because of this it has been recommended to only offer salt water once a week.

For debate on the salt water issue visit:
viewtopic.php?t=77743&highlight=variabilis
and
viewtopic.php?t=74726&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

If you feel that something needs to be disputed please post about it either in this thread or this one:
viewtopic.php?t=78010

I'm trying to make sure that the care sheets have all the info in one page so that a new crabber doesn't have to read through entire threads to find a conclusion.

suebee · Post by **suebee** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:38 pm

tigermoon.. I think you are doing great work..i appreciate the time you have spent i know what kind of hours you have put into not only the species sheets but this site..please do not take any of what i have said personally. If any of it seemed directed at you i apologies fully. I didnt mean it to be directed at anyone.. Somehow even when told by the best to just let it go i feel i have to try to help the crabs.. It takes alot out of me and sometimes others too so maybe i should just sit back and let things go.. Ill work harder at my silence.. Blessings to you If i was able to use the pm on this site i there are a few pointers i may of given or still might have however the HCA does not fine me a member in good standing so i am not able to us it.. Maybe I should just keep my ideas and thoughts to other sites..
any questions may be emailed to me and ill do my best to help as always.

tigermoon89 · Post by **tigermoon89** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:57 pm

Somehow even when told by the best to just let it go i feel i have to try to help the crabs

No worries! We are all here for the same reason- to help educate about proper crab care. As has been stated quite often, there's still so little known about them. We are all researching and still learning the best ways to care for them in captivity. Right now, no one is saying strictly that the Aussies will or will not gorge themselves. It's a debate with differing experiences and opinions. However, until trials are finalized I do agree that it's best to play it safe with new comers and stick to what we know so far. The way I see it, the more research and debate, the better off the crabs will be once full trials and tests have been done

Personally, you and your posts have helped me A-L-O-T, when I first started out crabbing and it still continues today. I'm sure many other members feel the same way here as well.

sugarselections · Post by **sugarselections** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:57 pm

It's perfect timing for this thread to have become active again. I'm proud to announce that my Aussie, Darwin, has now been with me for one full year. Go Darwin! I'm happy to be able to tell you that Darwin is still a perfect molting machine and she's very active when not underground. She's also still a world class piggy!

And guess what... Darwin is still happily and healthily living with 24/7 access to salt water.

If you're an owner of Aussies who has healthy and happy crabs who are given constant access to salt water maybe it would be fun and helpful to post your experiences here in this thread. How long have you owned Aussie crabs and what's your personal, real experience with offering salt water?