PPDS tank. PLEASE REVIEW

[hermiesandrocks]

Hi! I’m new, and I need advice.

I’m adopting 2 small crabs from “not great” conditions. I’m nervous about taking them on, but I want to help them.

This is the PPDS tank I’ve put together. It contains:

a moss pit;
cuttlebone;
2nd level hammock;
small dishes of greensand, worm castings, and Spirulina;
2 pools of saltwater and freshwater with craft mesh ladders;
a segmented food dish for 3 parts proteins, 2 parts fruit/veg, 1 part calcium source, 1 part “extras” determined by menu for the day;
and a shell shop.

There is 1 inch of 5:1 play sand/eco-earth substrate.

The pools are contained in a craft mesh “cage” for easy water changes. I have identical containers with lids, already containing new water, on stand-by. All the pools have been treated with Prime and I used Instant Ocean for saltwater.

I have a heat mat on the rear connected to a thermostat.

Not pictured is a digital thermometer/hygrometer. The current reading is 75% humidity and 73 degrees. That has been stable for almost 48 hours now.

I also have a main tank set up for them when they have adapted, but I’m focusing on this one for this post.

Is this crabitat ready for the hermies? I will make any necessary changes to ensure the best environment.

Please review and offer any suggestions.
Thank you!!




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[JoeHermits]

There’s conflicting evidence of the effectiveness of PPDS tanks, with numerous anecdotal accounts arguing for or against their use. We don’t talk about them much here and usually encourage crabbers to add new crabs directly to the main tank. It’s the stress of not being able to molt that does the most damage to captive crabs and PPDS tanks further delay that process.

To answer your question though, yeah that looks like a decent PPDS tank


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[hermiesandrocks]

There’s conflicting evidence of the effectiveness of PPDS tanks, with numerous anecdotal accounts arguing for or against their use. We don’t talk about them much here and usually encourage crabbers to add new crabs directly to the main tank. It’s the stress of not being able to molt that does the most damage to captive crabs and PPDS tanks further delay that process.

To answer your question though, yeah that looks like a decent PPDS tank


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Oh, ok. Thank you so much for your response. Sorry to bother you. I’ll just try and delete my post.


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[hermiesandrocks]

Could you point me in the direction of that information? I’ve not run across any of the cons in my research, and I’m trying to find the best information for these little crabs. Thanks, again!


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[hermiesandrocks]

Is there anyone available that can help me understand the controversy? I should mention that I don’t plan on subscribing to the PPDS method whole cloth; I don’t quite understand how putting the crabs into a low heat/humidity level is helpful. I do understand that encouraging them to eat better and not hide is a key part of the method. But I think that it’s logical that any creature is more likely to eat and adapt easier if they can breathe properly. I know there are those that swear by it, but clearly there are those who do not. I wasn’t aware of that. So, why does the PPDS method work for some, but not others?

I’m open to criticism; my ego isn’t at stake here, my crabs are. I desperately want to do the right thing, so I’m sorry if I brought up a sore subject. However, I feel like I’m being blown off with the decent tank comment. That isn’t helpful. If I’m following one guideline incorrectly, then are there others I’m doing incorrectly as well? I’m perfectly willing to change up my method and my tank for the benefit of the hermies, but I need it all to make sense to me. I’m obviously new to crabbing, so if there’s something else I’m not doing right, please tell me.


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[myllkti]

Is there anyone available that can help me understand the controversy?

Hi, yes! It's ironic that something that one encounters so early on in crabbing is so controversial. I am happy to help if I can. I faced a similar question a while back myself if you search in the group you can find that if you want to:) Anyways lets get started!

I should mention that I don’t plan on subscribing to the PPDS method whole cloth; I don’t quite understand how putting the crabs into a low heat/humidity level is helpful. I do understand that encouraging them to eat better and not hide is a key part of the method. But I think that it’s logical that any creature is more likely to eat and adapt easier if they can breathe properly. I know there are those that swear by it, but clearly there are those who do not. I wasn’t aware of that. So, why does the PPDS method work for some, but not others?

In short, no one actually has any numbers. I think there;s some confirmation bias on both sides just by pure human nature. and one certainly is right, im saying SOME confirmation bias. but why it works for some and not others? There is no logical reason in would and no statistical proof negating that logic. meaning there's some bias at play. on proper heat and humdity. as for encouraging them to eat, one thing to take into account is that theyre scared of YOU (not for any personal failings, just because theyre prey blah blah blah, you get what i mean though haha). So if we don't bother them, we can give them space to feel safe to eat. In addition, we not leave some yums in the hide with them or something? PPDS, in my opinion, kinda just scares them all the time. If anything, i feel more concerned about their eating since we know that hermits like with many animals sometimes need some settle down time and calm down time before eating

I’m open to criticism; my ego isn’t at stake here, my crabs are. I desperately want to do the right thing, so I’m sorry if I brought up a sore subject. However, I feel like I’m being blown off with the decent tank comment. That isn’t helpful. If I’m following one guideline incorrectly, then are there others I’m doing incorrectly as well? I’m perfectly willing to change up my method and my tank for the benefit of the hermies, but I need it all to make sense to me. I’m obviously new to crabbing, so if there’s something else I’m not doing right, please tell me.


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That's great! It's also... making me realize i forgot to catch up on the thread before replying. I still think my previous comments have adecent shot at being relevant so i will send this message for now and just delete if needed (plus I did type a few minutes lets not have it go to waste before i confirm it was a waste haha). But at the same time, yes, there is so much controversy between groups that to follow one guideline correctly, you will inevitable be giving bad care in the eyes of another, so def dont take criticisms too deeply to heart

EDIT: okay I believe JoeHermits meant that though HCA doesnt support PPDS tanks, you did a good job on it for if you were to follow through. I can see how it feels like being blown off but if it helps, I have seen a lot of PPDS fights on FaceBook and actually imo it's more of a respecting your right to receive advice on the method and giving you feedback on how you did it if you choose to exercise your right to make that decision in a different way thing than a eh whatever yeah fine do what you want thing So yeah, from knowing how PPDS is viewed I genuinely dont think he was trying t blow you off at all! He gave you context for why PPDS isnt always approved but let you know that within PPDS standards you did good! And it's totally valid of course to misunderstand but i just mean to give context of how PPDS can be addressed by different people

[hermiesandrocks]

Thank you so much for all that! I honestly didn’t mean to bring up controversy; I didn’t know it was controversial! I guess I’m really anxious about starting all of this and I was expecting more of a “keep this/ditch that, this is good/that is pointless” kind of discussion when I first posted.

I do have my main tank completed, so perhaps I should start a new topic on that if it’s best to just put the hermies in there from the start.

Again, thank you both for your time and attention! I really appreciate the fact that you responded to help me understand something about which I’m obviously not well-educated.


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[curlysister]

People/ groups who swear by that method usually don't realize that it was based on a theory (re-feeding) that does not apply to hermit crabs. There are few scientific studies about hermit crabs in general, and particularly about those in captivity. So basically there is no scientific evidence to prove that one method is better than any other method. There is just lots of anecdotal evidence.
Wodesorel has rescued hundreds of crabs, and did not see a better survival rate using any specific method.
Crabs cannot put off molting forever - if they need to molt, they will molt whether they have eaten the amount that we think they should or not. And it is always safer to have deep substrate and molt underground than on the surface.
Using a specific method makes a person FEEL like they are doing Something to help improve their crabs' chance of survival, but there is no proof it actually does.

[hermiesandrocks]

Ok, gotcha! See, I was under the impression that crabs couldn’t molt successfully until they had their nutrition and water stabilized, and that they are more likely to hide when they are stressed rather than eat. I know they are prey animals and will terrified of me. That’s why my plan is to put them in their tank that already has food and water, put them in a dark, quiet place and leave them alone. That way maybe their tank will become an entire hidey hole for them.

Also, isn’t that why they’re given pellets in pet stores? So that they won’t molt? My crabs have been raised on pellets and poor conditions; that’s why I’m adopting them. I’m not sure when or if they’ve molted. Their current owner doesn’t know.

This is all so over-whelming, lol! I thought I was prepared, now I’m second-guessing everything.


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[JoeHermits]

Pellets don’t prevent molting. They do provide plenty of carbs and protein and I would offer more if I didn’t have ingredient concerns


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[JoeHermits]

Also, there was a small experiment posted here where new crabs were either placed in isolation and put straight into their tank, but that disappeared a long time ago. They found no difference in method but it’d be nice to have those numbers available


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[hermiesandrocks]

That would be helpful to have. Especially since there’s a forum here where we could all share our observations and environmental factors in a scientific manner. I’m not much for animal experimentation, so that’s as far as I think such a study should be done. Just marking condition factors and observation.

I’ve seen far too many people coming to experienced crabbers for help when it’s too late, though. The work about crab care has been done and it’s here. People only have to read what you fine folks have pinned for them. I’m perfectly willing to take the advice of experience before I subject an innocent creature to my ineptness. So, as for that, I’ve got my tank as ready as it can be, and I’m working on an isolation tank should it become necessary. My crababies will be here this weekend.

Thank you for all your help. I truly appreciate you all!


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