Comercial Foods Debate

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:41 pm

I have read that members have had problems getting their crabs off of FMR and instead had to wean them off of it. My crabs were reluctant to get off of commercial foods but I kind of went cold turkey, I didn't know at the time that crabs had problems like being addicted to commercial food.

I don't have time to make fresh food everynight so what I do is I have 3 or 4 different kinds of kibble.

For example one of them has dried organic mango, pineapple, papaya, rasin, apple, and coconut, cuttlebone, dried shrimp, brown rice and asame sea vegetable. The whole thing took maybe an hour to make (grinding things up in my blender) and I keep most of it in the freezer. I have one that is mostly nuts, and two I bought at the store that are ment for gerbils but the ingredients are great. I posted about it awhile ago. Then I bought some of Kerie's food. That way if I get abominably busy I can switch out these kibbles. I still try to make a fresh meal once or twice a week.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:54 pm

I had to slowly wean mine off the FMR. They seemed to be actually addited to it! When I tried to do it cold-turkey, they wouldn't touch the other foods I but in.

The way I started weaning them, was to sprinkle FMR on top of the homemade dry mix that I was making. The receipe for this mix can be found at Christa's site, www.hermit-crabs.com . I also added some wheat germ, cornmeal & flaxseed to the mix. (I know that Julia_Crab also sells a homemade natural food for hermies at her site & will be ordering some of that soon!) Eventually, I stopped putting FMR on top, & they still seemed drawn to the natural & better food.

MacandHunter · Post by **MacandHunter** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:49 pm

marcbmann wrote:I'm going to switch food from FMR to something else my problems are what should I fead them instead of FMR? Also they really like the FMR food so should I stop giving it to them?

I never weaned them off of it...

One day I just took it out and poof it't gone!

But they never seemed to eat that much and they liked there new fresh foods much better and loved them very quickly!

ripshaw · Post by **ripshaw** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:50 pm

i dont think this is a very good idea at all! FMR absolutely has done lots of research on hermit crabs which is why the specific ingredients in their commercial food is the best on the market for PPs in my opinion. How do you know you are giving them everything they need in their diet if you dont give them any? Supplementing with treats is awesome, taking away commercial food altogether I think is not a smart idea. why do you guys think they dont know much about hermit crabs?? i could see the argument that they care less about crab welfare than the bottom line of their income statement but they certainly have done their research.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:36 pm

You can really tell a difference (well, I can. I dont know if this is true with everyone!) in the way the they act towards eating anyway. My crabs are always in the food dish everynight. I make my own staple food and some fresh foods and other recipes. My crabs have been molting better and they seem more active.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:00 pm

Commercial food post

Please check out this post on commercial foods. There may not be scientists studying the harmful effects, but us crab owners have. Sorry Ripshaw but FMR is NOT good for them period.

Your best bet is to get them off that FMR food ASAP.....

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:04 pm

ripshaw wrote:i dont think this is a very good idea at all! FMR absolutely has done lots of research on hermit crabs which is why the specific ingredients in their commercial food is the best on the market for PPs in my opinion. How do you know you are giving them everything they need in their diet if you dont give them any? Supplementing with treats is awesome, taking away commercial food altogether I think is not a smart idea. why do you guys think they dont know much about hermit crabs?? i could see the argument that they care less about crab welfare than the bottom line of their income statement but they certainly have done their research.

Well, let's start with the fact that FMR offers large wire display cases for purchase for your crabs to be displayed in. http://www.fmrpets.com/displaycages.ivnu

They also sell crabs in painted shells as well as wire basket cages. As well as wire climbing background in their "crab kits".

The following quotes are from their website

The comfort zone for hermit crabs is 70 to 75 degrees Fahrenheit; that is when they are most active and healthy. If the temperature drops to between 50 and 60 degrees Fahrenheit, dormancy and hibernation will occur. A long hibernation may permanently affect the hermit crab. When you lower household temperatures with air-conditioning or energy-saving winter thermostat settings, heat the hermit crabs' habitat with a light or a special heater that warms the bottom medium

This temperature recommendation is a bit low. I scoured the website and found nothing that mentioned humidity at all.

They have been known to eat out of their owner's palms, ride on their shoulders and come out of their shell when called. Shy crabs have been trained with frequent misting.

I think giving the advice to spray your shy crab to get them to come out of their shell is ill-advised. It sounds like a good way to make a stressed crab more stressed.

The closest they come to mentioning humidity is as a reason for dropped legs or aggression.

First, the environment may be too dry. Adding water-filled sponges in there water dish and misting crabs, along with twice-weekly baths and daily drinking water will help an arid environment.

The fact that they recommend increased bathing to offset the stress that is causing the dropped limb is also ill-advised.

On the food note. I think that Kerie [Julia_Crab] has offered us a tremendous ammount of fact based information about what kind of nutrition crabs need and why, as well as the fact that crabs will not eat the same food every day. Now if a person wants to make the total switch to fresh food they have to be very dedicated to providing plenty of variety from all of the various types of food that they need. This is just not a viable option for some. But, on the other hand, just because a food is commercially prepared, does not mean that it is 100% of what a crab needs. In this instance, based on the errors on the FMR website about basic crab care, I would not trust them to advise about proper crab care or to create a complete crab diet.

NaRnAR · Post by **NaRnAR** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:31 pm

I voted yes you should change.

I use to like FMR, but after seeing Christas pic of her in the FMR cage and knowing that they are one of the reasons if not THE reason for painted shells...and for adding things to food that could possible harm the crabs..that was it, no more FMR for my crabs. I can safely say I dont own any commercial foods that are produced by FMR or other manufacturers.

I changed over, cold turkey, in December/January...as soon as I had the thought that FMR could be affecting my crabs it all (all commercial food) went in the trash. Since then I have seen dramatic changes in my crabs, faster growth (with the little guys), better molts and lots of color changes. Here is Skippy to show the food change, over a matter of 4 molts:

Skippy when I got her fresh from the box she was shipped to the store in:

Skippy after her first molt...~ 4 months of eating FMR foods. She lost 3/4 of one eye and 1/2 of the other, as well as lost coloration:

After her second molt she lost more of one eye After her third molt there wasnt a noticable difference.--this is when commercial foods went out in the trash.

After her fourth molt and having no commercial foods for almost 5 months she has gained lots of color and has started gaining her eyes back:

ripshaw · Post by **ripshaw** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:08 pm

im very highly HIGHLY suspicious of all this. painted shells and wired cages have nothing to do with how much research they've done, it has to do with what ridiculous profitable products the marketing department has concocted. all i can tell you is if fmr food was not good for them period my 2 small PPs ive had for 2 1/2 years would be dead because thats 95% of their diet, fmr food and treat. their activity levels are excellent and their coloring is the most astonishing, my strawberry has turned ghostly white over her past 2 molts which makes me think i still havent perfected her diet but my PPs have beautiful colors, much brighter than when i brought them home from the store. Pedro has probably molted with me over a dozen times i've lost count. there are no funky preservatives in fmr food (unlike many other brands), what could possibly be so terribly harmful to them? im just finding this whole debate sort of amazing so sorry if im coming off as crazy lol

i just wanted to add to this real quick because i was noticing some of these pictures being posted of the bad effects of fmr food are not even pps. well yes like i said my strawberry has done very poorly on the food, and i would say thats because it says right on the container "this food is specifically manufactured for the COENOBITACLYPEATUS, Land Hermit Crab" (capitalized and everything) so theres no doubt in my mind the diets of different species which come from different parts of the world vary a lot but we are lucky to have at least this 1 commercial food which from my personal experience is excellent for PPs exclusively

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:00 am

I have high regard for Ripshaw's crab care, what percentage of our members have had the same crabs for over 2 years? I used to feed FMR. The main reason I threw it out was because it smelled "spoiled". Hmm, could it be it didn't have enough preservatives?

I agree with Rip, I think FMR has done a lot of research on PP's, and I don't think the formula of their food is "bad". I do think that we know it was not formulated with research of "exotic" species from other oceans with other flora and fauna, and perhaps it doesn't match their nutritional needs as well as it does PP's.

I also think because they are in business, not a non-profit, they will promote what makes them money. It is in their interest to keep the crabs they sell alive. Well, until they sell them at least.

Those who offer lots of fresh foods will admit that not every offering is well-received!

But our produce is different from what an Indo would find near the coast of an Indonesian isle. And, as scavengers, hermits in the wild are accustomed to quite a bit of variety in their diet. I imagine that's why some of us have better luck offering a food infrequently.

This topic, like so many other crab care topics, is highly debatable, and there is not a clear conclusion.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:02 am

Ripshaw you posted what could possibly be so terribly harmful to them? FMR has EQ in it. That should be enough for you to not feed your crabs that. I can't change your mind, but I can try to help the new crabbers see that this isn't healthy.

Go check the past threads on commercial foods...After you read all that, and still say you are going to feed them FMR then so be it. Too many members have had problems. Most agree it's the food...I think thats the proof right there, it should be sending you a red flag...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:59 am

im very highly HIGHLY suspicious of all this. painted shells and wired cages have nothing to do with how much research they've done, it has to do with what ridiculous profitable products the marketing department has concocted.

Ripshaw,

I'm not sure what you are "highly suspicious" of? I didn't make up the FMR website information. If you want to draw a line between the food and the merchandising that's fine for you. I agree that the marketing deparment probably had some influence. I still don't feel good about FMR who, according to you, loves their crabs so much, would allow their name to be placed on such things. And if you will take time to review the information I posted, much of that information came from their Crab Care Sheet and their Crab FAQ which has nothing to do with selling anything.

If the marketing and sales people can influence them this way, I cannot be certain that they are not also influencing their commercial food.

Whether or not you give your crabs FMR or any other commercial food is your choice. All I've done here is back up my choice with the evidence I found.

I would have posted about what the FMR food says about itself but the site was down, it was up this morning.

The product has been developed with food oils which will help promote successful molting, and will allow for an indefinite shelf life.

There are a handful of foods that, on their own, have an indefinite shelf life. Oil is not one of them. Food oils go bad fairly quickly unless stabalized with preservatives. So what all is in this food that helps them manage this task?

ripshaw · Post by **ripshaw** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:47 am

i totally agree with you guys that everything on fmrpets website isnt up to par. but fmrpets is only the business segment of florida marine research institute which did the research and came up with the recipe so i dont see that being very highly correlated. im only disagreeing on this food thing anyways. and fmr food doesnt have EQ in it check the ingredients. thats the main reason i specially order fmr food over buying the other brands at petco, i dont trust those preservatives. ive heard of people's fmr food molding because of it but mine seems to stay for the few months it takes me to go through a bottle so i havent had any problems. well i agree with ck there is no right answer ehre, ill just be the stubborn mule on this one lol. the important thing here is we ALL have healthy crabs so nobody's doing anything 'wrong' as much as i liked to snap at the beginning of this debate so excuse me for that

now ive got 20 min to get ready for class so ttfn

Christa · Post by **Christa** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:37 am

Everyone calm down.

First of all, nobody here knows FMR like I do, except maybe a few ladies in Sarasota who have earned my undying gratitude and admiration (you know who you are!)

Florida Marine Research is not affiliated with the Florida Marine Research Institute. FMR is owned by Paul (last name unknown) and it is a family and friends sort of business. The research they do is the same kind of research that we do, trial and error. I'm not sure why Paul chose the name Florida Marine Research, but if you call the Institute they will say they've never heard of Paul's outfit.

I agree that we should not feed EQ to our crabs. They are natural animals like all animals and chemicals are not good for them. Sure, EQ isn't on FMR's list of ingredients. But EQ is also not on the list of ingredients in IAMS or Science Diet pet food, but it's in there too. As responsible individuals we should not blindly rely upon the businesses to be honest about what they are putting on their labels. The big businesses are in it to make money, no matter how much blood money they dish out to animal shelters and humane societies.

Now with that in mind, if I was totally adverse to making my own crab food, which I'm not, I'd be more inclined to purchase crab food from small businesses (like FMR) than from a big business (like T-Rex). This is because big businesses have huge processing plants and who knows what goes on there? So the chain goes like this: Homemade food=best, small business food=fair, big business food=worst. Of course there are exceptions as far as big business food, like Hikari (tho some people think Hikari uses EQ too). OTOH maybe FMR's food is made at a big plant and shipped to them? So you see you really need to reason it out on your own.

It is all common sense. Do your research and make your own decisions, but please be nice about it. Members who have been here a long time deserve a certain amount of respect by others that have not been here as long. That goes regardless of age. Ripshaw obviously cares a great deal for her crabs. She needs to do her own research and make her own decisions. If you want to present your case for organic food, great! But remember you'll catch more bees with honey than with vinegar!

hc!
Christa

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:52 am

I haven't tried the FMR food to date, but this topic has got me thinking.... If the FMR is specifically for PPs, what's a good commercial food to feed all crabs, if there even is one? I drastically cut down my crabs commercial food consumption the past few months after hearing all the bad things about commercial foods. Instead I've been offering them a wide variety of fresh natural foods along with a dish of commercial food maybe once a week (I leave it in for two days). I've had two PPs molt since the cut back and they both came up a lot paler than they went down. The ruggies stayed about the same color as they were pre molt and the straws got brighter. The E's got more tan with less blue, but I attributed it to their growing size. My PP Herman just came up from her third molt with me a few days ago and I was so shocked at her color loss that I've started feeding commercial food again. Monster the PP was the same way. I'll have to see if I can dig up some before pictures and I'll take some afters today. I have three commercial foods, one by T-rex, one by Tetra (that one has EQ in it but they seem to prefer it) and one I got with my first crab called "crab and lobster bites" but I think that one is for aquatic crabs. They seem to eat it anyway, but I wonder about the nutrition. I wanted to get some Gardener's food till I read it was special for PP's. Although they make up a large percentage of my crabs, I have three other species as well. If Kerie has any more of her food available, I plan on ordering some, but not till after my hubby deploys to Iraq and the money is a lot better. Not that her food is expensive, I'm just weird with money unless I know we have a lot of it.

*edit* Here are the pictures of Monster and Herman. I noticed a more dramatic color decrease with Herman than Monster, but you can see Monster's legs are paler than they were pre molt. Herman is shy, so the best after I could get of her was tucked into her shell.

Monster:

and Herman:

HCA: Hermit Crab Association

Comercial Foods Debate

Re: Food Switch