Straws tend to die in or around salt water dish ?

Where we discuss the behavior of our hermit crabs, as in fights, pecking orders, shell swaps, etc. Please post all naked-crab posts in the Emergency forum.

Topic author
Guest

Post by Guest » Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:23 pm

crabber wrote:I'm sorry, I have had this problem before too.

I'm trying to get my mind around this, but.....I'm not sure how deluted salt water would help a straw absorb it more easily. Are they dying from salt toxicity, or this absorbtion problem? If it is an absorbtion problem I just don't see how lowering the saltinity would help......
I think I understand the theory here, I guess the best way to explain it would be to take an analogy from WWII. When I asked my grandfather about liberating camps like Auschwitz he told me that when the Allies first attempted to treat the former prisoners by giving them meals, they'd almost always die. Some of them died from gorging themselves, and some died because their systems went into shock. After so long without proper nourishment, they had physiologically adapted to process only small amounts of food at a time. When conditions suddenly normalized, they weren't able to readapt to the new conditions them fast enough to survive. Good meals would quite literally kill them. So instead, what troops ended up doing was having to feed people spoonfuls of soft foods, like mush, at a time and gradually step-up the process to get to full meals.

What I think posters are trying to say here is that the hermies are gorging themselves on the salt water and causing system shock or salt poisoning. If you dilute the water, they might still gorge themselves, but it would have less of an effect since the concentration is lower. For the most part, this would make sense, since Coenabita Research Society's info on PPS kind of confirms that hermies adapt to changes slowly, and don't snap back in good conditions very fast. Which is why they suggested ISOing new crabs in conditions that mimic the pet store's temp/humidity, and then gradually adjusting those until they match the main tank.


Topic author
Willow

Post by Willow » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:50 pm

Perhaps the problem isn't that they're taking in too much salt, but instead taking in too much water in their attempts to get enough salt, thereby causing ion imbalance due to too much water in their systems. Maybe. In this case, it would make more sense to offer them full-strength or even double-strength salt water, but only for limited periods, say, an hour a day. Then they could get the salt, but not overdo it with the water. But, really, it's all conjecture at this point.

I did have this happen with Straws in the past, having them soak in the salt water before dying. The last time I got Straws, I got a batch of 5 (all that PetCo had), and they had mites, so I soaked them in salt water (I also use Real Ocean) for 30 minutes every other day. I had originally intended to soak them for only 5 minutes at a time, but they seemed to enjoy it, so I left them in the bath until they tried to climb out, and it was always about 30 minutes. I did this for about 2 weeks, left them in iso for another 2 weeks, then added them to the main tank (after a final soak to make sure all the mites were gone). So far, 4 of them have moulted beautifully, and the 5th is still moping around obviously pre-moult, but hasn't buried yet. It's the only time I haven't lost at least 1 crab from a batch---of any species--- to PPS. I don't know for sure if the soaking is the key, but I'll try it again next time I get new hermies.

And just in case you think that Straws may enjoy being bathed----I took the pre-moult guy out for a soak the other day, thinking it would help him get down to business, and he was very upset about the whole thing. He kept trying to get out, so I only kept him in for a minute because I didn't want to stress him. So I guess they only put up with the soaking before because they knew they needed it at the time.


Topic author
Guest

Post by Guest » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:18 am

Thanks guys for more details.

But this is what I'm thinking about.......

I understand the intellectual idea of deluting the water, but something is just not convincing enough about it to offer such a salt water dependant species deluted salt water....I just think we should be careful about that.

With human's malnutrition as an example, people at no point stop absorbing nutriants that they haven't gotten for a while, nor do they go into toxic shock when those nutritents are supplied again, so it does not seem to be a directly related comparsion, although your grandpa sounds like a wonderful man, someone I could really enjoy talking to. :) We simply don't know what is causing this behavior, it could have nothing to do with absorbtion at all.......

Other species also submerg in the salt water before death, although not as long as straws seem to.

I know there are things we don't know about crabs that may contribute to their deaths, and we need to discuss, theorize, test hypothisis, all wonderful, so I don't mean to sound discouraging. But this reasoning for straw deaths seems....off to me. For all we know crabs simply know something is wrong with them, they don't know what, and instinctivly they know salt water is a natural disinfectant, the only medicine they know of, and so try and save themselves by salt soaking.

I'm personally just not ready to try deluted salt water for new straws.


dbolack
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:22 am
Location: Austn, Tx

Post by dbolack » Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:49 pm

crabber wrote: I'm personally just not ready to try deluted salt water for new straws.
I don't do this. It was frankly, an uneducated guess. Though I suspect my water salinity is not where it is "supposed" to be. I'm not the most precise measurer.


Topic author
Guest

Post by Guest » Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:00 pm

I'm sorry.....I didn't mean to indicate anyone was harming their straws....There are so many times I think of a theory like this one and wish I could test it, but of course I never want to risk my crabs while trying to figure it out.

I don't think I'd make a good scientist, I know I'd start to think of any live subject as my "pet". :| I'd be better at annalyizing data.

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